anyone here have experience with holset turbos on the AAN?

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Re: anyone here have experience with holset turbos on the AA

Postby loxxrider » Tue Oct 06, 2015 12:49 pm

I think the HY35's hotside is too small to make much use of anything more than about 7500 RPM. The bigger hotsides available from holset are best for anything above that. Don't rev past 8k on a stock head. Past 8500 is troublesome without dry sump oiling due to limitations of the stock oil pump.
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Re: anyone here have experience with holset turbos on the AA

Postby dana » Tue Oct 06, 2015 12:53 pm

I think I made a max of 310whp and 278tq that day. That turbo was snotty as hell on my car, and very fun. Can't comment on how much it had up top since my rev limited stayed at 7000rpm. It never felt like it was dropping off before that, but I imagine I probably had that combination pretty much maxed out at 30psi. Made for a very fun driver, and got down the 1/4 mile quite well.
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Re: anyone here have experience with holset turbos on the AA

Postby vwnut8392 » Tue Oct 06, 2015 1:31 pm

loxxrider wrote:I think the HY35's hotside is too small to make much use of anything more than about 7500 RPM. The bigger hotsides available from holset are best for anything above that. Don't rev past 8k on a stock head. Past 8500 is troublesome without dry sump oiling due to limitations of the stock oil pump.

oh i played with revving the stock AAN to 8000 in my S6 and thats when the first engine spun a rod bearing for some ungodly reason so i just keep them at the stock limiter when on stock parts.





dana wrote:I think I made a max of 310whp and 278tq that day. That turbo was snotty as hell on my car, and very fun. Can't comment on how much it had up top since my rev limited stayed at 7000rpm. It never felt like it was dropping off before that, but I imagine I probably had that combination pretty much maxed out at 30psi. Made for a very fun driver, and got down the 1/4 mile quite well.

so basically since im putting it in my 4000 this should be a really interesting experience due to the lack of weight. the car weights 2800lbs with me in it, a half tank of gas and the full interior. i weighed it on the scrap scale in my buddy's salvage yard a few years ago. i guess some injectors are on the shopping list now as the 440's that are in the car just wont cut it. the 4 bar FPR and the 044 motorsport pump should do the job though.
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Re: anyone here have experience with holset turbos on the AA

Postby lorge1989 » Mon Oct 26, 2015 12:46 pm

I have made just over 400 whp on 20 psi with my HX35. To everyone who says they spool slowly, I don't know where you get your information from. As long as you get the right turbine housing, you will be very happy with it. FWIW I have a 2.0 20V (4 banger) not an AAN. I'm hoping to make 500whp on my little holset with some more boost and some cams.
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Re: anyone here have experience with holset turbos on the AA

Postby vt10vt » Mon Oct 26, 2015 6:07 pm

lorge1989 wrote:I have made just over 400 whp on 20 psi with my HX35. To everyone who says they spool slowly, I don't know where you get your information from. As long as you get the right turbine housing, you will be very happy with it. FWIW I have a 2.0 20V (4 banger) not an AAN. I'm hoping to make 500whp on my little holset with some more boost and some cams.

Are you on a 12cm exhaust housing? I'm on stock displacement with a 7 blade and a divided 12cm on a divided manifold. I need to read your build thread again, I kind of regret not going 2.0l... I'm getting on the dyno in a couple weeks, I would be VERY happy with anything close to 400whp at 20psi, I'm hoping I'll be able to break 400 by 25psi or so (stock small port head, stock cams, 1.8l)

Also I met Brandon of Breakout Motorsports at H2O, super cool guy! In our emails we were actually talking about your build. He was one of only a handful of people that actually saw my setup at the show, I wish I had tried to meet up with more Audi people but my schedule was too damn hectic for me to plan anything.
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Re: anyone here have experience with holset turbos on the AA

Postby loxxrider » Mon Oct 26, 2015 11:50 pm

It's true they won't spool slowly when set up right , but it's still a few hundred rpm slower than the bb equivalent. There is no denying that.
-Chris

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Re: anyone here have experience with holset turbos on the AA

Postby lorge1989 » Tue Oct 27, 2015 4:28 pm

vt10vt wrote:
Are you on a 12cm exhaust housing? I'm on stock displacement with a 7 blade and a divided 12cm on a divided manifold. I need to read your build thread again, I kind of regret not going 2.0l... I'm getting on the dyno in a couple weeks, I would be VERY happy with anything close to 400whp at 20psi, I'm hoping I'll be able to break 400 by 25psi or so (stock small port head, stock cams, 1.8l)

Also I met Brandon of Breakout Motorsports at H2O, super cool guy! In our emails we were actually talking about your build. He was one of only a handful of people that actually saw my setup at the show, I wish I had tried to meet up with more Audi people but my schedule was too damn hectic for me to plan anything.


I have a. 63 housing. I got it from Tim's Turbos for pretty cheap. I had to weld on my own vband though. Brandon is the man! Haha. I am finally getting my crap together and trying to make more power. I truly think the aeb tb is a killer. Get a bigger tb, proper intercooler piping size and even gasket match your intake ports to the aeb gasket and it should help your motor flow. Being 2L also plays it's part :)

I also have an 8 blade not the better 7. I should also clarify I made 390whp at 5500 on 18 pounds , wasn't able to get a full sweet (long story) but I am very confident 400whp was there with a few more rpms.

loxxrider wrote:It's true they won't spool slowly when set up right , but it's still a few hundred rpm slower than the bb equivalent. There is no denying that.


Comparing ball bearing and journal bearing Turbos is kinda silly no? I'll try to get a plot up of spool.
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Re: anyone here have experience with holset turbos on the AA

Postby vt10vt » Tue Oct 27, 2015 8:03 pm

lorge1989 wrote:
vt10vt wrote:
Are you on a 12cm exhaust housing? I'm on stock displacement with a 7 blade and a divided 12cm on a divided manifold. I need to read your build thread again, I kind of regret not going 2.0l... I'm getting on the dyno in a couple weeks, I would be VERY happy with anything close to 400whp at 20psi, I'm hoping I'll be able to break 400 by 25psi or so (stock small port head, stock cams, 1.8l)

Also I met Brandon of Breakout Motorsports at H2O, super cool guy! In our emails we were actually talking about your build. He was one of only a handful of people that actually saw my setup at the show, I wish I had tried to meet up with more Audi people but my schedule was too damn hectic for me to plan anything.


I have a. 63 housing. I got it from Tim's Turbos for pretty cheap. I had to weld on my own vband though. Brandon is the man! Haha. I am finally getting my crap together and trying to make more power. I truly think the aeb tb is a killer. Get a bigger tb, proper intercooler piping size and even gasket match your intake ports to the aeb gasket and it should help your motor flow. Being 2L also plays it's part :)

I also have an 8 blade not the better 7. I should also clarify I made 390whp at 5500 on 18 pounds , wasn't able to get a full sweet (long story) but I am very confident 400whp was there with a few more rpms.

That might as well be 400wheel and at only 18lbs... I found a mint 7 blade at Goldfarb for $150 but really I don't think it will make any difference with my setup and power goals.

I have a VR throttle body (3" boost hose fits it, not sure on ID) on a stock small port manifold, 3" intercooler piping, big FMIC that doesn't get great airflow, AEB Pistons/Scat rods, and a 3" dp -> 3" mid -> 2x 2.25 tails. My goal was to make 400whp, every day and without worry, as cheaply as possible. It's definitely not an optimal setup but it was super cheap and easy to put together. Your setup is closer to where I'd like to be next year!

I see 20psi over 4k but it doesn't even think about falling off :)
-Shawn C.
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Re: anyone here have experience with holset turbos on the AA

Postby loxxrider » Wed Oct 28, 2015 12:34 am

lorge1989 wrote:
Comparing ball bearing and journal bearing Turbos is kinda silly no? I'll try to get a plot up of spool.


I think it's rather relevant actually. Something like comparing organic apples to non organic ones. It's still comparing apples to apples, just that one will give you cancer.

For the record, I don't buy organic apples.
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Re: anyone here have experience with holset turbos on the AA

Postby Ruyck » Wed Oct 28, 2015 11:53 am

I'm running an HX35 with that .63 housing from Tim's Turbos on my 3B'd 4000 right now. With a k26-6 machined hot side the car made 320whp 310tq at 20PSI (understandably). I'm expecting bigger things from the new setup. Probably won't be able to afford to get it on the dyno again for awhile though.
Last edited by Ruyck on Wed Oct 28, 2015 4:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: anyone here have experience with holset turbos on the AA

Postby 88a5tq » Wed Oct 28, 2015 12:25 pm

I may have been watching propaganda, but I believe fracking waste-water is sold to organic farmers to water their crops since there's no regulations on what is used to water organic crops :D

Other than that, I have nothing to add. Watching
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Re: anyone here have experience with holset turbos on the AA

Postby vt10vt » Wed Oct 28, 2015 6:28 pm

loxxrider wrote:
lorge1989 wrote:
Comparing ball bearing and journal bearing Turbos is kinda silly no? I'll try to get a plot up of spool.


I think it's rather relevant actually. Something like comparing organic apples to non organic ones. It's still comparing apples to apples, just that one will give you cancer.

For the record, I don't buy organic apples.

Yeah obviously a BB will spool faster, and a CNC head will obviously flow more than a stock one, but George's point is you don't buy a non organic apple expecting it to be organic.

A better comparison would be non-organic apples from two different stores to each other.
-Shawn C.
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Re: anyone here have experience with holset turbos on the AA

Postby loxxrider » Wed Oct 28, 2015 9:31 pm

When someone claims that holsets spool slowly, they are comparing to bb turbos, not other journal bearing turbos. Plus, I don't know why you would compare holsets to any other journal bearing turbo. It's pointless becuase the holset will always come out on top in every way. Thus, I think comparing holsets to bb turbos is not only relevant, it's the only question which needs to be asked.
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Re: anyone here have experience with holset turbos on the AA

Postby PRY4SNO » Wed Oct 28, 2015 11:15 pm

Why isn't the question a comparison of the cost:output:powerband relationship?
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Re: anyone here have experience with holset turbos on the AA

Postby jcarrick » Thu Oct 29, 2015 1:28 am

I had an hx35/40 hybrid on my old urS4 and loved it. I never got it dynoed or even dyno tuned, but Chris helped me a ton getting it street tuned. Though on my next AAN car I do want something that spools lower in the RPM range and not setup for so much top end power. Looking for a max of 400whp. Has anyone looked at the Holset HE341's and HE351CW's? In the "cummins" world they are a great replacement, for the stock hx35's on 12v's, that spool faster and are capable of 400-500hp. Heres a quick comparison map I found for the HX35, HY35 and HE351CW

Image
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Re: anyone here have experience with holset turbos on the AA

Postby lorge1989 » Thu Oct 29, 2015 2:22 pm

vt10vt wrote:That might as well be 400wheel and at only 18lbs... I found a mint 7 blade at Goldfarb for $150 but really I don't think it will make any difference with my setup and power goals.

I have a VR throttle body (3" boost hose fits it, not sure on ID) on a stock small port manifold, 3" intercooler piping, big FMIC that doesn't get great airflow, AEB Pistons/Scat rods, and a 3" dp -> 3" mid -> 2x 2.25 tails. My goal was to make 400whp, every day and without worry, as cheaply as possible. It's definitely not an optimal setup but it was super cheap and easy to put together. Your setup is closer to where I'd like to be next year!

I see 20psi over 4k but it doesn't even think about falling off :)


That is a great budget build setup. Just don't rev too high with stock pistons! My IC piping is 2.5" on the hot side and 3 inch on cold side with a very smooth flow path with no sharp bends. The VR tb is key though, that will help you a ton. Here is a graph for ya.

Image

If you look at the A4 graph that makes 370 whp, thats a 7 blade 1.8T HX35 on Brandons dyno, 25psi. stock aeb head, stock TB, mani, cams. Just a rodded motor and a ebay log manifold. So I made 390 on the same dyno at 5500. Its just a good comparison of what really wakes the 1.8T up. (I do wish I had a full plot to compare though) So the differences would be that I have a mildly ported built head, 2.0 bottom end, custom intake manifold I made (only thing 'custom' about it is the flange I welded on and I ported the stock inlet to better match the VR tb, and I ported the runners to match the gasket), SPA exhaust manifold, a legit intercooler with smoother flow path and possibly a better flowing exhaust, mine is 3 inch straight through til after the center of the car where there are two flow through mufflers. Also my motor appeared to be in better overall health than his, not that anything was terribly wrong with it. The tune was much different but both cars are on E85.

What fuel will you be running? On 93 I think 400whp for your 'regular tune' will be your limit. Get some cams and E85 though and it should be easy.


88a5tq wrote:I may have been watching propaganda, but I believe fracking waste-water is sold to organic farmers to water their crops since there's no regulations on what is used to water organic crops :D

Other than that, I have nothing to add. Watching


:D :lol:


loxxrider wrote:When someone claims that holsets spool slowly, they are comparing to bb turbos, not other journal bearing turbos. Plus, I don't know why you would compare holsets to any other journal bearing turbo. It's pointless becuase the holset will always come out on top in every way. Thus, I think comparing holsets to bb turbos is not only relevant, it's the only question which needs to be asked.


The way I read your earlier posts made it seem you didn't like Holsets, almost implying that they are slow spooling low quality turbos. I see now thats not the case. I understand now why you would try to compare BB and holsets.

jcarrick wrote:I had an hx35/40 hybrid on my old urS4 and loved it. I never got it dynoed or even dyno tuned, but Chris helped me a ton getting it street tuned. Though on my next AAN car I do want something that spools lower in the RPM range and not setup for so much top end power. Looking for a max of 400whp. Has anyone looked at the Holset HE341's and HE351CW's? In the "cummins" world they are a great replacement, for the stock hx35's on 12v's, that spool faster and are capable of 400-500hp. Heres a quick comparison map I found for the HX35, HY35 and HE351CW


The HE351CW is intriguing to me, but I think those are pretty tough to find and even when looking at the graph they spool almost identically to the HX35. On a 5 cylinder with a .63 AR I imagine the HX35 would be a very torquey quick spooling snail.
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Re: anyone here have experience with holset turbos on the AA

Postby loxxrider » Thu Oct 29, 2015 4:30 pm

Glad you see what I mean :)

Also, for what it's worth you can't see spool on a compressor map.
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Re: anyone here have experience with holset turbos on the AA

Postby vwnut8392 » Sun Feb 12, 2017 11:18 pm

sorry for bringing this back from the dead but i have spent a summer with the HX35 on my car and needless to say im not very pleased with the spool up at all. im not even seeing full boost till like 5200RPM and i think this is because i got stuck with the 16cm2 turbine housing and everyone else has had the 12cm2 turbine housing. i've been trying to figure out how to convert cm2 to A/R so it makes more sense to me, i have seen several charts online with the conversions but they are all a bit different. i have been trying to source a used 12cm2 housing because i think that will put my spool in the 4000 to 4500RPM range and thats where i want to be.

on another note i have an HX40 with the 19cm2 turbine housing which seems extremely large for my application. i went digging through my pile of blown/parts turbos and dug out an old blown ebay super T70 that has a .82 A/R divided T3 turbine housing so i got down to taking some measurements on it and comparing the turbine wheel profiles. the .82 A/R turbine housing fits the HX40 with no modifications. now as i questioned earlier i dont know what the A/R would be for the 19cm2 HX40 housing is but it definitely seems to be bigger than the .82 housing i found.

Here's some of the information i noted down doing research on running the .82 A/R housing on the HX40. i cant say if the A/R to cm2 is right so dont quote me on it.

HX40 turbine wheel
-inducer---76mm
-exducer--64mm
19cm2 divided T3 turbine housing
1.00 A/R????


Ebay super T70 turbine
-inducer---73.50mm
-exducer--63mm
.82 A/R divided T3 housing


If i decide to install this combo of .82 A/R turbine housing on HX40 im hoping it hits max boost in the sub 5000RPM range. i was running 27psi with the HX35 and i plan on the same amount of boost with the HX40. 27psi seems to be the limit for 93 octane fuel here. i can dump more boost into the engine but i have to pull more timing and it seemed that it was losing power when i did that. let me know if you guys have any info on setting this HX40 up with this housing.
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Re: anyone here have experience with holset turbos on the AA

Postby 88a5tq » Mon Feb 13, 2017 9:37 am

Holy crap 16 cm?! I'm ecstatically happy with my 9 cm housing that Chris recommended when I was researching. I actually don't know when it hits full boost but I think 4.5k
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Re: anyone here have experience with holset turbos on the AA

Postby vwnut8392 » Mon Feb 13, 2017 12:13 pm

88a5tq wrote:Holy crap 16 cm?! I'm ecstatically happy with my 9 cm housing that Chris recommended when I was researching. I actually don't know when it hits full boost but I think 4.5k


yeah, mines off of some sort of caterpillar and not a dodge truck. found the HX35 and the HX40 laying in the one local junkyard not attached to engines or anything. the HX35W from a caterpllar is essentially the same as the dodge truck HX35W but it has the 16cm2 turbine housing. from what i read there is 9, 12, 14 and 16cm2 turbine housings available for the HX35. i have a 1.8T in my shop with a 12cm2 HX35 on it and needless to say it spools A LOT faster than my 2.2 I5 does with 16cm2 housing. i didnt know these differences existed when i got my HX35 or i wouldnt have put it on till i had a 12cm2 housing.
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1984 4000S quattro-AAN swapped
1983 UR coupe quattro
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Re: anyone here have experience with holset turbos on the AA

Postby vwnut8392 » Sun Apr 30, 2017 3:34 am

who here is good at turbo math? i assembled 2 different varient's of the HX35. one is going to be for my 4000 quattro and the other is going to be for my S6 avant. specs are below. i'd like to figure out if i made some decent combinations.

4000 quattro HX35
-Billet compressor wheel with 16cm divided T3 holset turbine housing
----Compressor wheel
------Inducer-53.71mm
------Exducer-82.97mm

----Turbine wheel
----Inducer-69.85mm
----Exducer-59.97mm


S6 Avant HX35
-Cast compressor wheel with 14cm divided T3 holset turbine housing
----Compressor wheel
-----Inducer-52.75mm
-----Exducer-76.00mm

----Turbine wheel
-----Inducer-69.35
-----Exducer-57.95


The one i made for my S6 definitely has smaller wheels and turbine housing as you can see, i made this configuration based on how the same cast compressor wheel acted when it was attached to the 16cm turbine wheel and housing. when this combo was assembled the car would not get full boost of 25psi till 5000RPM. i figured downsizing the turbine wheel and housing should make it a more streetable turbo and lower the spool up time some at least.

for the 4000's turbo the billet wheel that is being used is almost HX40 size but since billet wheels tend to weigh less than their cast counterparts i figure full boost should be around 5000RPM still with the 16cm turbine housing and turbine wheel. basically my thought is that since the turbine wheel is now larger but billet the weight shouldnt be far off of the original cast wheel that was originally mated with the 16cm turbine housing and wheel.

Im just putting all of this out there for the rest of you guys to analyze and compare to your experiences with holset turbo's. i think these 2 are going to work rather wheel but i may be wrong and hopefully someone on here will see an error before i find it. Also all wheel measurments where done by me with a set of digital calipers. figured i'd give exact numbers instead of rounding.
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