CQ project, the road less traveled (They're never done)

Document and share your build!

Re: CQ project, the road less traveled (Done all I can)

Postby AngryTaco » Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:29 am

Just imagine the record you would hold with a 10v....
1986 4000cs Turbo Quattro
2001 Dodge Dakota R/T Standard Cab
1990 V8 quattro
1995 urS6

-Hersh Performance and Racing Products-
Most orders are being refused until further notice. Please PM

Powerflex Dealer

#thuglife
User avatar
AngryTaco
 
Posts: 2656
Joined: Mar 4, 2013
Location: Hayden Lake, Idaho

Re: CQ project, the road less traveled (Done all I can)

Postby scubadave » Sat Oct 11, 2014 4:03 am

What, half the valves, half the power? I'll stick with my record.
User avatar
scubadave
 
Posts: 496
Joined: Mar 2, 2013
Location: Cottonwood Heights, Utah

Re: CQ project, the road less traveled (Done all I can)

Postby chaloux » Sat Oct 11, 2014 8:22 am

Lol.

Nice result!
Are you on a number 8 hotside?
Matt

01 Allroad 6speed - RS4 clutch, catless downpipes, stuklr tune
04 Jetta TDI - DC stage I clutch/14lb fw
DEATH by rust - 96 Audi A6 Avant 2.5l TDI
GONE :( 87 4ktq - 4 FOX SNAKES
DEAD :( - 1996 S6 mit TDI
Image
User avatar
chaloux
 
Posts: 3162
Joined: Feb 27, 2013
Location: Muskoka, Ontario, Canada

Re: CQ project, the road less traveled (Done all I can)

Postby scubadave » Sat Oct 11, 2014 2:08 pm

chaloux wrote:Lol.

Nice result!
Are you on a number 8 hotside?


nope. just a #6.
User avatar
scubadave
 
Posts: 496
Joined: Mar 2, 2013
Location: Cottonwood Heights, Utah

Re: CQ project, the road less traveled (They're never done)

Postby scubadave » Fri Jun 05, 2015 2:15 pm

Well, I finally started on the car repairs/upgrades/tweaks after letting it sit over the winter without having it torn down the whole time. When I replaced the Idler pulley with a smaller one I also routed the serp belt differently so I didn't have to replace it with a smaller one. Now, I never thought that doing this would cause my power steering pump to rattle while at idle, but it did. I put up with it for a while because it was around the time for BBQ. After BBQ, I just parked the car and focused on other things in my life putting it off till I could spare the time to deal with it.

So, Saturday I pulled the front end apart to replace the pulley with the original one I had on there, so I drained the radiator and pulled it all off so I had the front of the engine exposed and clear of any obstructions. This is actually the best thing I could have done because I found that the allen bolts in the Harmonic Balancer were loose with one that had completely come out and was draped down against the inside of the balancer. I also had a balance problem I noticed driving the car here and there that needed to be figured out. There it was! I am completely amazed that the bolt stayed put instead of being launched through the one-off radiator I painstakingly built last year and is irreplaceable. Dodged a bullet there! So I put locktight on the bolts and tightened them again. Replaced the Idler pulley with the previous one and routed the belt proper, fired up the car and the rattle was gone. I also blasted an alu P/S pump I removed from a B4 90 at a JY to install on the AAN since it does not have the BOM pump in it, and also blasted my alternator so it would look the same as all the parts on the engine and not be the only dirty part left to be delt with.
20150601_173739 (800x450).jpg
20150601_173739 (800x450).jpg (237.35 KiB) Viewed 10024 times
20150601_173919 (800x450).jpg
20150601_173919 (800x450).jpg (202.1 KiB) Viewed 10024 times


I noticed the engine was sitting on the subframe so I put a washer on the top of each HPR engine mount to prop it up enough to get it off the subframe. worked like a charm.

Then, I had always noticed there was a problem with the passenger fender at the very front hanging over the light was tweaked down and figured it had alwyas been that way since the car had a small fender bender 20 years ago. lucky for me there was no major frame damage, just the hood fender and bumper were damaged at the time. simple replacement fixed the problem, but the guy that repaired it missed that the metal was pulled down slightly. I put a bottle jack between the frame and the corner of the light frame and pushed it back into its proper position. I'm so glad I have been fixing all the little things that have bothered me for the last few years. It looks more better and makes me feel good about it.
20150601_173751 (800x450).jpg
20150601_173751 (800x450).jpg (222.29 KiB) Viewed 10024 times


Now, one of the problems I had with moving the radiator to the front of the car was that it lost the secondary safety latch for the hood. It always bothered me to have that inoperable because back in the day on my 4KTQ it was also inop, and one day while going to work the hood popped loose and whipped up and hit the roof. it bent the hood hinges but luckily didn't break the windshield or damage the hood. Ever since that happened, I was nervous about the fact it wasn't working on the coupe. I still had the parts and decided to modify everything to try to get it working like stock, so I bent the latch forward, cut a section out of the handle and welded it back together. Then cut and welded the catch to be a smaller profile and attach to the upper rad support. it actually worked out perfect, and is now completely functional.
20150604_135612 (800x450).jpg
20150604_135612 (800x450).jpg (190.84 KiB) Viewed 10024 times
20150604_135544 (800x450).jpg
20150604_135544 (800x450).jpg (163.52 KiB) Viewed 10024 times
User avatar
scubadave
 
Posts: 496
Joined: Mar 2, 2013
Location: Cottonwood Heights, Utah

Re: CQ project, the road less traveled (They're never done)

Postby ringbearer » Fri Jun 05, 2015 2:24 pm

Small but all.worthy fixes!
User avatar
ringbearer
 
Posts: 1249
Joined: Feb 27, 2013
Location: Nor-Cal

Re: CQ project, the road less traveled (They're never done)

Postby scubadave » Mon Mar 28, 2016 2:57 am

So since the last time the engine was out, I took it to BBQ 5 and back home, drove it a few times after that, but not many. I have hesitated driving the car because of the oil burning when I start it up cold. after all the effort I have put into it, its embarrassing for it to smoke every time I start it up from cold. Recently it has developed a rattle as well which was concerning. I looked into where the noise was coming from, and found it was internal. Noise was still present with the serp belt off, however it did not sound like rod knock. it was too fast for the RPM. So, the engine was pulled out......AGAIN. this is the 5th time. Practice makes perfect, right? So, since I have exhausted all avenues to find why the engine burns oil from cold, I decided to utilize the spare 7A head I have and modified it to take the front cam sensor and machined to accept the water manifold. I have been spending the last many weeks porting the head and getting it ready to get inconel exhaust valves and stainless intakes with a 3 angle grind.

20160110_181732.jpg
20160110_181732.jpg (2.19 MiB) Viewed 9621 times
The attachment 20160110_181732.jpg is no longer available
20160110_180853.jpg
20160110_180853.jpg (1.3 MiB) Viewed 9623 times
20160110_181014.jpg
20160110_181014.jpg (1.22 MiB) Viewed 9623 times


With the engine out and apart, I found the noise turned out to be the oil pump. it had not lost pressure, but the gear that meshed with the crank had rotational slop. I will be grabbing the 7A short block and taking a look at its oil pump parts to be used in place of my damaged pump drive gear. It has proven difficult to find a replacement AAN pump on the interwebs. I will keep those interested informed of the progress.
User avatar
scubadave
 
Posts: 496
Joined: Mar 2, 2013
Location: Cottonwood Heights, Utah

Re: CQ project, the road less traveled (They're never done)

Postby PRY4SNO » Mon Mar 28, 2016 10:09 am

Onward and upwards, right?

Nice to see some updates again.
Find me on Instagram @pry4sno

|| 2010 Golf Sportwagen TDI /// Farmenwagen
|| 1992 80 quattro 20v /// Eventual AAN'd Winter Sled
|| 1990 Coupe quattro /// Because Racecar

|| Spare parts for sale
User avatar
PRY4SNO
 
Posts: 2234
Joined: Mar 3, 2013
Location: Edmonton, AB

Re: CQ project, the road less traveled (They're never done)

Postby scubadave » Tue Mar 29, 2016 3:08 am

Well, I brought my 7A short block back from storage and tore it down to check the play on the oil pump. it virtually had the same play. So my theory about the oil pump being the issue is wrong. Since I only pulled the first piston/rod and found nothing, I realized I should leave no stone un-turned, so I pulled the rest. Why should I not go through the entire motor and find all that is wrong with it so I don't put it back together again just to fail from something I missed cause I didn't check. Everything looked great up until I pulled #4.

20160328_181312.jpg
20160328_181312.jpg (1.61 MiB) Viewed 9579 times
20160328_181327.jpg
20160328_181327.jpg (1.55 MiB) Viewed 9579 times


Now this looks bad, but while talking to Nate, he doesn't believe its the cause of the knock. The bearing is damaged, but only in the middle, and not uniform from edge to edge, so it could not be the knock. To describe it, it was an internal knock, lower end, 2 knocks per revolution. This was likely caused at break in, or just after from tuning so early after break in.

I've run low on time for today and will have to pull the crank another day.
User avatar
scubadave
 
Posts: 496
Joined: Mar 2, 2013
Location: Cottonwood Heights, Utah

Re: CQ project, the road less traveled (They're never done)

Postby audifreakjim » Tue Mar 29, 2016 11:06 am

What does a plastigauge show on that bearing? I would be very suspect of it. Two knocks per revolution almost has to be rod knock. One on upstroke, one on downstroke.
User avatar
audifreakjim
 
Posts: 2081
Joined: Mar 3, 2013

Re: CQ project, the road less traveled (They're never done)

Postby scubadave » Tue Mar 29, 2016 12:36 pm

If after I pull the crank and find nothing else, I would agree there could be no other explanation for the knock. By the looks of the other rod bearings, I doubt the crank is going to be any different. Not to mention how would the crank make that noise regarding the main bearings? At this point, unless i find some other rotational smoking gun, there couldn't be any other explanation.
User avatar
scubadave
 
Posts: 496
Joined: Mar 2, 2013
Location: Cottonwood Heights, Utah

Re: CQ project, the road less traveled (They're never done)

Postby pkw » Wed Mar 30, 2016 7:30 pm

I would check the heck out of that! Mic everything to make sure it is round and right and go ahead and check with plastigage too. I would also use feel to get an idea of the relationship going there. All this stuff together gets a bit redundant but there will be some cumulative gain achieved.
500hp for $500? Holset + mc2 bottom + 7a head
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1534
User avatar
pkw
 
Posts: 276
Joined: Mar 24, 2014

Re: CQ project, the road less traveled (They're never done)

Postby scubadave » Sun Apr 10, 2016 3:23 am

Well, based on some conversations I had with Nate, and no other physical findings, it seems that the #4 rod bearing is the only failure point and the result comes down to the combination of a few things. First, stock size calico coated bearings with stock tolerances. Second, much higher power output. Those combinations resulted in oil not being able to wick away the heat fast enough, overheating, and failing, as is explained in Jeff Gerner's engine building thread. Nate had the same thing happen to him in his motor, and had his crank ground to open up the tolerances enough for acceptable heat transfer and oil wedgification. As soon as I get a new set of coated bearings and take measurements, my crank will be getting ground as well.

At least I caught this before it got really messy and wasn't able to get it fixed for minor'ish money, machine work, and of course time. Maybe the fifth time's the charm.
User avatar
scubadave
 
Posts: 496
Joined: Mar 2, 2013
Location: Cottonwood Heights, Utah

Re: CQ project, the road less traveled (They're never done)

Postby scubadave » Tue Apr 19, 2016 1:26 am

So after waiting for spare calico rod bearings and the rest of the parts I needed to reassemble my bottom end, Nate and I spent 3 hours on Saturday measuring the clearance of the rods with the new bearings. So the consensus of my experience with assembling an engine with calico bearings the first time without proper micrometers to get an accurate picture of what I am putting together is now "Do not put together an engine with calico bearings assuming plastiguage is good enough for proper bearing clearance, because it is not." The plastiguage measurements I got last time were that all were around 0015 to 0019 where in fact I actually had no accurate idea what it was.

With the new bearings measured, all but 1 had a clearance between 0021 and 0025 which is ideal for a higher than normal HP engine and the 1 was at 0007 which is way to tight. it just goes to show in "Reality" that with Calico bearings, the coating is not regulated well when sprayed on and can vary much more than is wanted. What I did to get around the 1 tight bearing was reuse one of the other bearings I pulled from the rods that were undamaged. In fact, the rest of the bearings were beautiful. All the rest of the rods and mains looked like I installed them 10 miles ago. With reusing the other bearing, all the rod clearances are ideal for my engine, therefore today I put the bottom end back together as is, replacing only the rod bearings.

In retrospect, I rolled the dice on engine assembly with Plastiguage and lost. At least the damage was minimal and the entire engine did not eat itself. I am lucky for that.

I have also received new supertech inconel exhaust and stainless Intake valves so I can install my spare 7A head modified for AAN duties once I am done with the porting and have the valves installed. hopefully this will all be done and the engine reinstalled within the next few weeks so I might be able to enjoy the car for the summer.

We may have to do a coupe run up Mirror Lake hwy just for fun this year.
User avatar
scubadave
 
Posts: 496
Joined: Mar 2, 2013
Location: Cottonwood Heights, Utah

Re: CQ project, the road less traveled (They're never done)

Postby pkw » Mon Apr 25, 2016 9:35 am

FWIW I put mine together with std mc2 bearings and wanted nothing to do with coated anything. Std have always worked fine for lots of miles for everyone. Everybody's coated, bearing tolerances seemed too tight to me when they would tell me what they had.
500hp for $500? Holset + mc2 bottom + 7a head
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1534
User avatar
pkw
 
Posts: 276
Joined: Mar 24, 2014

Re: CQ project, the road less traveled (They're never done)

Postby scubadave » Mon Apr 25, 2016 11:14 pm

At this point, I have to stick with what I already have, but given what I know now, I wouldn't go coated again. Finished the porting on the head yesterday and dropped off the head to the machine shop today. they said its at least a week or so out. Looking forward to having it running again, fingers crossed for no more cold start oil burning. Its been too long since I felt the kick in the pants this car is willing to put out.
User avatar
scubadave
 
Posts: 496
Joined: Mar 2, 2013
Location: Cottonwood Heights, Utah

Re: CQ project, the road less traveled (They're never done)

Postby scubadave » Mon Jul 04, 2016 9:00 pm

Update.

After fighting the extra amount of machine work to fit the valves, the head was finally completed, just in time to install in a weekend, and move out of the house the next.

As of now, the car is running again, knock was cured with the rod bearings, at least so far anyway. We'll see after a few thousand miles, but I feel better about it this time. The final configuration with the head is now:

Heavily ported and AAN Modified 7A with
Supertech stainless Intake
Supertech Inconel .5 oversized exhaust
ferria valve springs
New seats


Now I have to take the next week off to move all my car/tools and my dad out of his recently sold house.
User avatar
scubadave
 
Posts: 496
Joined: Mar 2, 2013
Location: Cottonwood Heights, Utah

Re: CQ project, the road less traveled (They're never done)

Postby pkw » Tue Jul 05, 2016 10:30 pm

....so the rod was perfectly round before you popped new rod bearings in and called it good?.....I am hoping.
500hp for $500? Holset + mc2 bottom + 7a head
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1534
User avatar
pkw
 
Posts: 276
Joined: Mar 24, 2014

Re: CQ project, the road less traveled (They're never done)

Postby scubadave » Wed Jul 06, 2016 2:48 am

They were thoroughly checked, with a correct micrometer. thanks for the vote of confidence.
User avatar
scubadave
 
Posts: 496
Joined: Mar 2, 2013
Location: Cottonwood Heights, Utah

Re: CQ project, the road less traveled (They're never done)

Postby scubadave » Mon Aug 12, 2019 2:27 am

Wow, it has been just over 3 years since I posted anything on this thread. Bringing it back from the dead.

So, since the car was put together the last time in order to move it out of my dad's recently sold house, and into the garage of the house he is renting, the car has sat in the garage since then. the more it ran, the more pronounced a rattle became. I couldn't drive the thing like that, plus the oil burning issue was getting worse. I through my hands in the air and walked away and focused on my home renovation, and my job. I just needed to forget about the car for a while.

I finished the renovation and have it on the market currently. I have also recently applied for a Field Service position in the company (Military Contractor) I work for. If all goes to plan,and with a little luck, I will be living overseas making 3-4 times as much.

So I decided to come back to the car and try to fix the 2 problems I have been fighting since it got parked. first, the rattle was the newly done head I had a machine shop do work on. needless to say, they were morons when it came to these heads. I may as well have flushed all that money down the drain. I don't know that the head is garbage or not, but I decided to put the original AAN head back on the block. I also took a hard look at the turbo and came to realize the oil was coming from the turbine. I had Industrial Injection rebuild the turbo and put the car back together, changed the oil/filter, changed the fuel, and fired it back up again.

The result was the rattle disappeared, aside from the (anticipated) lifters pumping up. However, the turbo is now pumping oil out the turbine faster than before.

So forgive my bad memory as I have used my brain for testing and debug of electronic devices I cant go into, and the thought processes on the old Audi's gas gotten a bit rusty. I have a feeling the turbo is getting too much oil pressure, but I don't really know where that should be regulated. is it in the oil pump, or the filter housing. I need to connect my pressure gauge up to the feed line of the turbo, but since that is still original, it may be tricky. I would rather not yank the turbo back off just yet to go yell at Industrial Injection before I check the basics. Can somebody point me in the right direction?

And since everybody likes pictures, here is the latest pretty pictures of the engine.
IMG_20170514_192311.jpg
IMG_20170514_192311.jpg (1.91 MiB) Viewed 454 times

IMG_20170514_191950.jpg
IMG_20170514_191950.jpg (1.64 MiB) Viewed 454 times
User avatar
scubadave
 
Posts: 496
Joined: Mar 2, 2013
Location: Cottonwood Heights, Utah

Re: CQ project, the road less traveled (They're never done)

Postby james12lucy » Mon Aug 12, 2019 8:35 am

You might want to try an oil restrictor on the turbo oil inlet (if it’s a Garrett). They make a specific fitting for their GTX series. I think all turbos require a restrictor to some extent.

Check ATPTurbo.com. They will have what you need to fix the oil blow by.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
james12lucy
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Apr 22, 2019

Re: CQ project, the road less traveled (They're never done)

Postby PRY4SNO » Mon Aug 12, 2019 7:45 pm

Pretty sure there's a check valve type regulator in the oil filter housing. That might be worth a look.
Find me on Instagram @pry4sno

|| 2010 Golf Sportwagen TDI /// Farmenwagen
|| 1992 80 quattro 20v /// Eventual AAN'd Winter Sled
|| 1990 Coupe quattro /// Because Racecar

|| Spare parts for sale
User avatar
PRY4SNO
 
Posts: 2234
Joined: Mar 3, 2013
Location: Edmonton, AB

Re: CQ project, the road less traveled (They're never done)

Postby themagellan » Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:53 pm

Way to put it back together - looks awesome.

Good thread on your issue (I think you are k24 7400?) - https://www.s2forum.com/forum/technical ... l-problems

I read on vwvortex that some k26 housings came with a built in restrictor and some did not - it would be on the oil feed line to the turbo - the restrictor should look like a pinhole.


Why do you think it is getting too much oil? - What kind of weight oil are you running?

Is the drain big enough?


Here are a couple cool developments somewhat relevant here:

http://www.efiexpress.com/catalog/produ ... ucts_id=52

https://www.s2forum.com/forum/member-s- ... fle-plates
User avatar
themagellan
 
Posts: 819
Joined: Mar 5, 2013

Re: CQ project, the road less traveled (They're never done)

Postby scubadave » Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:34 am

Not running the Volvo turbo anymore. Sold that to Taco. I got one of Hanks Billet K26.

So this is a fresh rebuild. They replaced the center section, turbine shaft, and bushings/seals. There should be no problems. I just need to spend time I dont have figuring out what the pressure is at the turbo so if its within spec, I can take it back to them and tell them to try again. If it's too high, I need to figure out why.

All the lines are stock AAN, the drain line is big, should not be an issue.

The deal is, I put this fresh rebuilt turbo on my car, fired it up and idled for 5-6 minutes watching the exhaust for smoke due to it burning in the exhaust. I saw exactly that and shut it off. I then looked under the car and found the exhaust leaking oil at the V-band on the bottom of my down pipe. Needless to say the problem has done nothing but get worse every time I attempt to fix it. At this point, I have spent a fortune trying to fix this problem. It shouldn't be this fucking hard. I'm at my witts end and I have urges to set the car ablaze and push it down the street, but I wont do that. What I do know is they wont do shit without me giving them the oil pressure numbers if it turns out they fucked this rebuild up. I also need to find out what the warranty period is. Because...

To add to the stress, my home closes on the 29th and I need all the spare time I have to move my shit out.

Well, regardless of my minor problems, thanks for the comments on how it turned out. I intend to get to the bottom of this before I ship off to (hopefully) overseas. I just wanna drive my damn car again, and feel that raw power. Be driving next to some dipstick who thinks he is fast and either show him his life is a lie, or roll my eyes and give him the usual jerk off gesture like he's a waste of time. I cant do that in my B6A4 daily hammer. Sure it's a 6spd Ultrasport, but it's just not the same...
User avatar
scubadave
 
Posts: 496
Joined: Mar 2, 2013
Location: Cottonwood Heights, Utah

Previous

Return to Projects

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 13 guests