Kevin's 200 20v

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Re: Kevin's 200 20v

Postby Aktapod » Sat May 14, 2016 12:35 pm

Daaaammmn I bet that sounded pretty! Was that on the 5k?

I love how easy the turbo is to change on the 200. I tore it down and found a LOT of oil in the intake. I had to pour it out of the michelin man hose. Good news though! There doesn't seem to have been any contact between the blades and the housing. There's just quite a bit of radial play (and no axial play).

Unfortunately, when I selected 1 day shipping, I didn't realize it meant 1 full business day. :shame: It was picked up by UPS late Friday evening, and is set to arrive Tuesday? Grrr. Looks like I'll be driving to Nashville on Wed and have one day to test drive before we leave for Carlisle. If anything is up, I guess we'll just take the V8.
Kevin (Sven)
- 1991 200 20vt
- 1992 Audi V8 5-speed swap
- 2002 Audi S8
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Re: Kevin's 200 20v

Postby loxxrider » Sat May 14, 2016 12:37 pm

Rain or shine, you better be there!
-Chris

'91 Audi 200 20v - Revver/BAT project
'91 Audi 200 20v Avant
'01 Anthracite M5
'90 M3
'85 Euro 635csi
'12 X3
E34 530i (maybe rear-mount soon)
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Re: Kevin's 200 20v

Postby Aktapod » Sun May 15, 2016 3:42 pm

No worries, mate! I'm not missing two years in a row, that's for sure!

Okay, who wants to play a game of "What the heck happened?" I took a closer look at the turbo now that it's free and got a sinking feeling looking at the compressor blades - they're bent!

Image

I don't think anything was ingested, because 1) I was using the stock airbox, which is clean as a whistle and hadn't been opened for a while, so a contaminant would have had to be lodged in the intake, and 2) the bends are very smooth, showing no signs of impact (aside from the bending)

At the same time, I don't think the blades contacted the housing. There's no scoring, and I can't force the blades to touch, despite the radial play.

So, assuming the above is correct, the only remaining option would be a pressure-related incident. Or am I missing something? Could such a thing happen? How could I prevent it in the future? I don't want to toss out the idea that using my 1.9bar wastegate spring might be the culprit. I ran it for several months without blowing up, but I wasn't happy with how the boost would spike before settling where it should be in 1st and 2nd. I didn't wanna blow the turbo (lol), so I pulled it and only recently reinstalled it with the spring perch turned all the way back - and it didn't spike anymore (at least when I observed it).

In any case, my K24 that I keep for display is coming back into service. It doesn't spin very freely, but I'm going to harvest its compressor wheel for the blown turbo. It's got a few nicks, but the blades are straight.
Image

Thoughts? Suggestions? Laughing at my situation? I guess I should have heeded Dana's advice, but I had qualms about relying entirely on the chance that someone had a good K24 lying around and that they could get it out in a timely manner.
Kevin (Sven)
- 1991 200 20vt
- 1992 Audi V8 5-speed swap
- 2002 Audi S8
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Re: Kevin's 200 20v

Postby loxxrider » Sun May 15, 2016 4:30 pm

Well that stinks. Not that I'm surprised though. It's hard to say what caused what, but are you sure it wasn't already like that before? Maybe the deformed blade(s) caused a bearing to fail. Or maybe the failed bearing caused that to happen, but only at 115k RPM or whatever RPM a K24 spins.

I'm not a big fan of stronger wastegate springs on a stock tune. My avant has it, and I think it's a thick-skulled way to improve boost response and upper threshold. It makes mine hit boost cut a lot. The proper way is just to control the valve better.
-Chris

'91 Audi 200 20v - Revver/BAT project
'91 Audi 200 20v Avant
'01 Anthracite M5
'90 M3
'85 Euro 635csi
'12 X3
E34 530i (maybe rear-mount soon)
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Re: Kevin's 200 20v

Postby Aktapod » Sun May 15, 2016 5:04 pm

I'm not on stock tune ;) I have a (supposedly) Lehmann chip with a 2.5bar pressure transducer. I threw the spring in because you can see the boost gauge flutter around wildly while it's trying to maintain boost (goes back and forth ~3psi). After the spring, this is a lot smoother, but I think the boost onset is more rapid than than the ECU is anticipating.

Perhaps cranking down the stock spring would be better, so the preload is still higher, but the spring constant remains stock

Edit: To address whether it was already like that, all I can say is that the last time I pulled it (2+ years ago), they were all very straight
Image
Kevin (Sven)
- 1991 200 20vt
- 1992 Audi V8 5-speed swap
- 2002 Audi S8
Aktapod
 
Posts: 434
Joined: Dec 18, 2013
Location: Columbus, OH

Re: Kevin's 200 20v

Postby loxxrider » Sun May 15, 2016 6:08 pm

Sorry. By stock tune, I really meant stock ECU tune!
-Chris

'91 Audi 200 20v - Revver/BAT project
'91 Audi 200 20v Avant
'01 Anthracite M5
'90 M3
'85 Euro 635csi
'12 X3
E34 530i (maybe rear-mount soon)
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Re: Kevin's 200 20v

Postby Aktapod » Sun May 15, 2016 6:43 pm

Ah gotcha! You should get paid to advertise for VEMS
Kevin (Sven)
- 1991 200 20vt
- 1992 Audi V8 5-speed swap
- 2002 Audi S8
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Posts: 434
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Location: Columbus, OH

Re: Kevin's 200 20v

Postby vt10vt » Wed May 18, 2016 1:46 pm

Aktapod wrote:Daaaammmn I bet that sounded pretty! Was that on the 5k?

I love how easy the turbo is to change on the 200. I tore it down and found a LOT of oil in the intake. I had to pour it out of the michelin man hose. Good news though! There doesn't seem to have been any contact between the blades and the housing. There's just quite a bit of radial play (and no axial play).

Unfortunately, when I selected 1 day shipping, I didn't realize it meant 1 full business day. :shame: It was picked up by UPS late Friday evening, and is set to arrive Tuesday? Grrr. Looks like I'll be driving to Nashville on Wed and have one day to test drive before we leave for Carlisle. If anything is up, I guess we'll just take the V8.

Nope 5k is long gone, that's a 1.8T AEB piston from my HX35 B6 daily. Melted through it last Wednesday racing a chipped Focus ST but the car will be at Carlisle with a new motor. See you there :wave:
-Shawn C.
2001 S4 6spd Avant blk/blk - stock daily
2002 01E B6 A4 Built FYF, Built 1.8T, HX35 ~330whp
1989 MC-1 200 Avant- MS1 -Gone but will never forget her lessons
1987 5ktq Sedan - Best $500 beater ever
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Re: Kevin's 200 20v

Postby 88a5tq » Wed May 18, 2016 9:14 pm

Sorry for the off-topicness but Shawn do you think running meth injection could've prevented that failure?
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Re: Kevin's 200 20v

Postby loxxrider » Wed May 18, 2016 10:30 pm

tick tock
-Chris

'91 Audi 200 20v - Revver/BAT project
'91 Audi 200 20v Avant
'01 Anthracite M5
'90 M3
'85 Euro 635csi
'12 X3
E34 530i (maybe rear-mount soon)
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Kevin's 200 20v

Postby audifreakjim » Wed May 18, 2016 11:21 pm

"I tore it down and found a LOT of oil in the intake. I had to pour it out of the michelin man hose. "

That is likely your problem. Drops of oil hitting the compressor blade. You need a catch can, and as huge as you can fit :)
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Re: Kevin's 200 20v

Postby Aktapod » Thu May 19, 2016 11:34 am

loxxrider wrote:tick tock

audifreakjim wrote:You need a catch can, and as huge as you can fit :)

Tick tock, time’s running out
Turbo’s clocked, lots of work, no doubt
Torqued and sealed, and to my delight
It fired right up last Tuesday night!

“How’d you finish so fast?”
You’d be inclined to ask
I found some help in the local scene
An UrS guy by the name Tom Green

I shot him an email “By happenstance,
Have you a turbo to sell if given the chance?”
I heard back Monday, what a stroke of luck
“Ninety thousand miles; only a hundred bucks”

I met him that evening; a nice, knowledgeable man
He’d the cleanest turbo that you possibly can
No need to balance, in Knoxville I’d stay
I’ll save my rebuild kit for another day

I threw a heat shield together, and my K&N filter
So I could hear the turbo’s health, but not have to wither
From embarrassment and shame of my polycarbonate mess
For it’s aluminum now; it looks good, more or less

Good call on the catch can, but time’s running low
I can’t get that finished before I have to go
But it’s mostly together, ready for Carlisle
I’ll see you all in a little while

Image
Image
Kevin (Sven)
- 1991 200 20vt
- 1992 Audi V8 5-speed swap
- 2002 Audi S8
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Posts: 434
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Location: Columbus, OH

Re: Kevin's 200 20v

Postby Aktapod » Sun Jun 26, 2016 10:07 pm

Looks like The Poetry Pad was well-received, haha.

For those who couldn't be there, my dad and I successfully made it down to Carlisle. Despite the dreary conditions, and the perpetual fear that the ricers might take over, the weekend was an absolute blast! I'm no social butterfly, but the great thing about this community is that it feels like you're just spending a weekend with old friends - many of whom you've never met before!

It was great catching up with the guys I met two years ago, and even meeting some new folks like Magellan, Matt, Mike, Ben, and quite a few others.

I didn't spend much time taking pictures on the showfield, and those I do have are mostly of Chris' Avant (I think I'm in love with it), but you can see my tails poking out if you look hard enough :)

Image
Image

Of course, I was slightly disappointed to see that Mage didn't bring along his car (aka my twin), but not terribly so, because now I have to a chance to make sure mine is faster than his by next year. :D

The biggest concern of of the trip, though, lay in that fact that I was relying on a very untested K24 that I'd installed two days prior. To play it safe, I didn't give it full throttle until the Saturday of Carlisle (loaded 4 deep of course), and it performed flawlessly! Or so I thought, until after I returned home. Those that rode with me can attest to the fact that everything seemed absolutely normal. Nothing at all that would indicate a GIANT gaping hole in my BPV diaphragm! :o

I think I can conclusively say what killed the old turbo now - a large, quarter-sized chunk of diverter valve diaphragm was ripped free of its bonds and sucked straight into the compressor. Indeed, flushing out the intercooler revealed exactly what I suspected: the rest of the diaphragm sitting in mostly one piece. Thank goodness the intercooler caught it! It's amazing; my diverter valve has a plastic bit of reinforcement where the spring sits, so when the chunk got torn off (from repeated use and/or weakening from oil), the rest of the diaphragm still sealed with the plastic part and worked as it should. Hence why I didn't catch it until my turbo started chirping like a rally car.

Anyways, with that taken care of, I was faced with a new dilemma. Evidently, letting it sit for two months right after running in the salty snow was not great for keeping the car rust-free (duh). I like everything spotless, so it's very clear what new things have started to form some surface rust. Unfortunately, one of those affected is my rear passenger caliper, which apparently had a bad piston seal as well, letting the brine wreak havoc on the piston.

The thing is doneso.
Image

Of course, after discovering I couldn't just rebuild my dragging caliper, I had to hunt for a replacement. I could buy a reman'd caliper from A1Cardone, but I've heard less than reputable things about them. Unfortunately, my WTB ad for a used OEM caliper didn't garner much attention, so I rolled the rice.

So pretty!
Image

And then it promptly exploded. The end!
Kevin (Sven)
- 1991 200 20vt
- 1992 Audi V8 5-speed swap
- 2002 Audi S8
Aktapod
 
Posts: 434
Joined: Dec 18, 2013
Location: Columbus, OH

Re: Kevin's 200 20v

Postby Aktapod » Sun Jun 26, 2016 10:26 pm

Jk! I immediately returned the POS and shelled out the big bucks for a brand new OEM caliper from germanautoparts.com. Still waiting on the part to arrive, so I'm just sitting in the garage stealing my mom's parking space until then.

Image

Good news, though! I am now employed full-time with decent pay, so I can actually afford parts! Once I get the time, I'll be putting in the HP2's I have lying around, and I'd like to amass the rest of the parts I need for a suspension overhaul, which I think realistically will happen this fall, even though parts will be assembled sooner. I think I am going to go with coilovers. I really liked the H&R/Koni combo on Corey's 200 at Carlisle, but at the same time, why limit my options if I ever decide I'd like to run stiffer or lower when I get used to it. With such a similar pricepoint, it just seems logical.
Last edited by Aktapod on Mon Jun 27, 2016 6:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Kevin (Sven)
- 1991 200 20vt
- 1992 Audi V8 5-speed swap
- 2002 Audi S8
Aktapod
 
Posts: 434
Joined: Dec 18, 2013
Location: Columbus, OH

Re: Kevin's 200 20v

Postby 2.5TYPE44 » Sun Jun 26, 2016 10:38 pm

Nice work with the cars. I have a hard enough time with just one. I couldn't imagine trying to keep up with two!
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Re: Kevin's 200 20v

Postby loxxrider » Mon Jun 27, 2016 2:48 pm

I liked the poetry! I think I meant to respond and then got distracted by something.

Thanks for the avant picture. I think the coilovers are a good idea. Like you said, the relative ease of changing out springs is nice.
-Chris

'91 Audi 200 20v - Revver/BAT project
'91 Audi 200 20v Avant
'01 Anthracite M5
'90 M3
'85 Euro 635csi
'12 X3
E34 530i (maybe rear-mount soon)
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Re: Kevin's 200 20v

Postby Aktapod » Tue Jul 05, 2016 11:26 pm

2.5TYPE44 wrote:Nice work with the cars. I have a hard enough time with just one. I couldn't imagine trying to keep up with two!

Haha your car is equivalent of at least two! But I am happy to report that I'm no longer going at it alone. My younger brother has taken an interest in the V8, and he helps me out on most projects now. My hope is that he'll take it up for himself, since he dailies it and has expressed a desire to 5-speed swap it as well.

But that's the other thread! I just put in an order for everything else I need to do the brakes on the 200. Here what is going on :hide: this weekend?

FRONT
x2 Zimmerman coated B5 S4 rotors ($82.44/e on Amazon)
x3 Motul RBF 600 Brake Fluid 500mL ($16.99/e on Amazon)
x1 set Akebono Euro 839 front brake pads ($85.76 on Amazon)
x2 Wheel bearings - FAG/OEM 441407625A ($45.45/e from AutohausAZ)
x2 B5 S4 front brake hose - ATE 3U0611707 ($9.53/e from AutohausAZ)
x2 UFO housings (already have)
x2 B5 S4 HP2 calipers (already have)

REAR
x2 Rear brake hose - Pex 8D0611775D ($9.98/e from AutohausAZ)
x1 New OEM caliper - 447615423 ($206.51 from germanautoparts.com)
x1 Caliper rebuild kit - Centric 14333033 ($3.13 from RockAuto)
x1 set Stoptech Street Performance pads - 309.02280 (already have)
x2 unknown drilled/slotted rear rotors (already have)

I know, who does a BBK and chooses non-performance pads? This guy! I spent way too long trying to decide between Hawk HPS, EBC Redstuff, and the Akebono's that I went with. After reading a thousand contradicting opinions on various forums, I prioritized my needs. Akebono's check off the most items that I value in a daily-driver brake system, that is good cold bite, low-noise, and above all, linear and consistent brake feel. That last one is my only beef with the HPS I've driven before, because you have to let off the pedal as the pad warms up if you want the same brake level. Never tried Akebono's, so I'll report back with my findings.

I've sandblasted the HP2's and made them pretty. This just leaves one question: powdercoat red (for a much-needed touch of color) or black (for sleeper status)?
Kevin (Sven)
- 1991 200 20vt
- 1992 Audi V8 5-speed swap
- 2002 Audi S8
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Posts: 434
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Location: Columbus, OH

Re: Kevin's 200 20v

Postby loxxrider » Wed Jul 06, 2016 7:26 am

Nothing wrong with a little red for the brakes. I like the look on my avant. The sedan has black though, for extra sleeper status. It'll need all the help it can get with the way it sounds :D

Nice job on the brakes though. That's some big spendin' for a poor college student!
-Chris

'91 Audi 200 20v - Revver/BAT project
'91 Audi 200 20v Avant
'01 Anthracite M5
'90 M3
'85 Euro 635csi
'12 X3
E34 530i (maybe rear-mount soon)
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Re: Kevin's 200 20v

Postby Mentosman42 » Wed Jul 06, 2016 8:27 am

I have yet to buy a good Cardone rear caliper haha, I had three leak from the piston seal and one of them the parking brake adjuster was broken because one day I got home and smelt burning and found that I had to spin the piston back down(parking brake adjustment). Dont think thats supposed to happen when the parking brake cable isnt even connected :hammer: .

The OEMs are certainly pricey but save a headache.
95.5 ur-S6
83 20vt urQ
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Re: Kevin's 200 20v

Postby Aktapod » Thu Jul 07, 2016 2:06 pm

Hahaha make that four that leaked from the piston seal. I bled the system and was pumping the brakes to get the piston to contact the pad when there was a loud pop and the caliper dumped fluid on the ground.

It's kinda funny how expensive this "free" brake upgrade has become! I don't mind the cost of doing it right, but I now realize I probably could have gone with Cayenne calipers for like $400 more.
Kevin (Sven)
- 1991 200 20vt
- 1992 Audi V8 5-speed swap
- 2002 Audi S8
Aktapod
 
Posts: 434
Joined: Dec 18, 2013
Location: Columbus, OH

Re: Kevin's 200 20v

Postby PRY4SNO » Thu Jul 07, 2016 8:21 pm

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Re: Kevin's 200 20v

Postby Aktapod » Thu Jul 07, 2016 8:44 pm

Contacted! Pending more info, you may have just expedited this whole process. :ty:
Kevin (Sven)
- 1991 200 20vt
- 1992 Audi V8 5-speed swap
- 2002 Audi S8
Aktapod
 
Posts: 434
Joined: Dec 18, 2013
Location: Columbus, OH

Re: Kevin's 200 20v

Postby Aktapod » Mon Jul 11, 2016 10:44 pm

I'm in contact with the seller, just waiting on info. Hopefully this pans out!

Back to brakes! This last weekend, I had some help from a local guy who is very skilled with his lathe (Michael, if you're reading this, HUGE thanks for your help!)

I dunno how many people have actually done the HP2 conversion, but we ran across an issue that I've never seen mentioned. We turned down the UFO hubs from ~143ishmm to 134.7mm. Boom, perfect, the hub fits in the rotor. However, the hub and rotor could still move on their shared plane. Maybe it's just my rotors, but the chamfered bit in the middle was a bit taller than the raised part of the hub, so the rotor was not entirely hub-centric. See below:

Image
Image

After a bit of deliberation, and the comfort of knowing I could always use my G60 hubs if we botched these, I had Michael shave 1mm off the face. Not only was it satisfying watching the rust turn into shiny metal, but it worked! The rotors now sit flush and immobile. And the hubs only lost one thread pitch, so I'm not hugely concerned about the material lost (anyone disagree?).

Image

So finally, I tossed on the rotor, caliper, pads and wheel to confirm that which I had suspected: I'm gonna need some spacers to clear unless I shave a bit off the caliper. No matter! I've been considering spacers because of the high offset of these wheels anyways. I think I'll do something like 10 or 15mm.

Image

Now I just need my new bearings pressed in and it'll be time to install!
Kevin (Sven)
- 1991 200 20vt
- 1992 Audi V8 5-speed swap
- 2002 Audi S8
Aktapod
 
Posts: 434
Joined: Dec 18, 2013
Location: Columbus, OH

Re: Kevin's 200 20v

Postby Aktapod » Mon Jul 11, 2016 10:48 pm

P.S. Finally broken in!
Image

And for fun, big rotor in stock wheel
Image
Kevin (Sven)
- 1991 200 20vt
- 1992 Audi V8 5-speed swap
- 2002 Audi S8
Aktapod
 
Posts: 434
Joined: Dec 18, 2013
Location: Columbus, OH

Re: Kevin's 200 20v

Postby Juizer » Tue Jul 12, 2016 2:31 am

Nice digits on the dash. :)
What's that at the autocheck display?
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