B4Q 80-AEB; Fuel Pump relayed! Finally...

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B4Q 80-AEB; Fuel Pump relayed! Finally...

Postby ChrisAudi80 » Sat Jul 19, 2014 11:43 pm

Finally, I will be able to post up a project thread after living vicariously through others for many years.

Living in Thailand severely limits the available Audi / VW cars with cool engine, trans and driveline options.
In 2008 I bought a B4 80 so I had a car to test fit the carbon hoods I was having made. Some of you probably know I am still trying to get these sold and exported.

The car is a 1995 80 2.0E automatic. Bought it for 100,000 baht. About 3 grand US. Yeah, I know. That's just how it is here.
It was in worse condition than I thought. Shocks where shot, bad VSS connection, would run on only 3 cylinders, shit tires and an inop LPG system.

Fast forward to end 2013, early 2014, I decided It needed something more. Switched it to E85, did a flap MAF elimination with a piggyback MAP-ECU3.
It already had a Weitec cup kit on it. Made by KW, but the low budget stuff. 40/40mm.

After coming into some money, I decided to get a little more serious. A buddy of mine in the Thai Audi club has a complete B5 A4 quattro rear subframe with 4.11 diff and rear struts. After seeing NiTeC's Quattro conversion of his 80 Avant, I decided it was time. I wanted to go 5cylinder, but finding a 20vT motor here is very tough. Only 50 S6's were ever imported and a lesser number of S4. After pondering all the mods needed and talking with my Audi buddy, he convinced me to go AEB. He found a B5 A4 AEB with quattro trans half cut from Japan! Paid a deposit on that yesterday, including a B5 quattro fuel tank. This can be made to work. That guy also had a real nice set of Recaro black leather seats from an A3. These just happen to have the same track width as a B4. Bonus. Made a deal on those too. In the pics you will see a dirty ass set, but he had near new ones in a storage room.

However, because I have no fab skills like many here or the tools, the swap will be done by a local shop which has already done several AEB to B4 swaps, including a 2.7TT Quattro into B4. Labor costs are very reasonable in this country. The swap will start August 2nd.

While collecting parts for the swap, like the pedal assembly, clutch line, MC and reservoir from the UK and a bitchin' steering wheel, I found a guy on the 'Tex still trying to sell his Lugtronic VEMS ECU including harness, 630cc injectors, new 06A coils, boost controller and WBO2. Made a deal. That will be here Monday. Still want to find a K04-015.

Pics!
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Last edited by ChrisAudi80 on Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:40 am, edited 29 times in total.
96 S6 auto
95 80Q AEB VEMS
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Re: B4 80 2.slow autoFWD -> 80Q AEB 5sp

Postby ChrisAudi80 » Sun Jul 20, 2014 2:54 am

More pics.

I also have an AAN SMIC and would like to use that instead of the crappy AEB SMIC. Because this car is Euro spec bumper and I don't want to buy a decent FMIC right now, anybody have a good idea how to mount the AAN SMIC? I don't mind getting it modded. Some cutting of the bumper might be needed, but that's OK.

So the set up planned is first get it running with all the stock AEB harness and ECU, later switch to wire-in VEMS and K04-015 on E85.
The VEMS system was originally bought from Lugtronic, but they did not respond to the seller email regarding updating the harness to hook up the IAC in the TB. My Audi buddy runs VEMS in his S6 and knows a fair bit about it.

If anybody happens to have an AEB, 630cc, E85 base map, with K03 or K04 turbo that would be a big help.
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96 S6 auto
95 80Q AEB VEMS
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Re: B4 80 2.slow autoFWD -> 80Q AEB 5sp

Postby lorge1989 » Sun Jul 20, 2014 7:53 am

I dont think there is a good way to use the stock TB to control idle. I am running MS3 right now and haven't been able to find anything on it. Do you want to see what the inside of a cable driven Audi TB looks like from that era?

Image

Id be interested in figuring out how to make it work, it just hasnt been a priority right now. Cool project!
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Re: B4 80 2.slow autoFWD -> 80Q AEB 5sp

Postby ChrisAudi80 » Mon Jul 21, 2014 10:08 am

lorge1989 wrote:I dont think there is a good way to use the stock TB to control idle. I am running MS3 right now and haven't been able to find anything on it. Do you want to see what the inside of a cable driven Audi TB looks like from that era?

Image

Id be interested in figuring out how to make it work, it just hasnt been a priority right now. Cool project!


Apparently, Kevin Black at Lugtronic said that the TB plug can be rewired for IAC control. Its a matter of hooking up more 2 wires. I am curious also.
The package with all the gear from OR came today. So awesome.
I think it works slightly differently than MS3. I was looking hard at going MS3, but decided against it because I have some friends here that know VEMS and I can get support from Lug or Marc S. I hope.

From Aug.2nd things will start happening. The car will first run with the stock stuff and when all OK and I have a K04-015, will be switched to VEMS gear.
96 S6 auto
95 80Q AEB VEMS
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Re: B4 80 2.slow autoFWD -> 80Q AEB 5sp

Postby ChrisAudi80 » Mon Jul 21, 2014 10:34 am

96 S6 auto
95 80Q AEB VEMS
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Re: B4 80 2.slow autoFWD -> 80Q AEB 5sp

Postby Dave » Mon Jul 21, 2014 6:18 pm

Why do you need to go stand alone and all that if you are only running a K04? check out my thread, i just finished swapping an AEB into my b4 using stock engine management...
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Re: B4 80 2.slow autoFWD -> 80Q AEB 5sp

Postby ChrisAudi80 » Tue Jul 22, 2014 3:20 am

Dave wrote:Why do you need to go stand alone and all that if you are only running a K04? check out my thread, i just finished swapping an AEB into my b4 using stock engine management...


Because I want to learn how to tune myself. If I wanted a tune for K04/E85/AEB/MAFless I have to send my ECU to the US and back. I would need supporting HW. When you add that up, it starts to get close to what this cost.

And because it is cool. Also, I might go larger in the future. That would need rods, of course. I want the flexibility.
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Re: B4 80 2.slow autoFWD -> 80Q AEB 5sp

Postby ChrisAudi80 » Tue Aug 05, 2014 8:37 am

Dropped the car off at the shop last Saturday. The half cut and the seats were there already. Paid for that.

Apparently, the B5Q fuel tank fill nozzle will not line up with the B4 fill nozzle. Anybody have an idea how to fix this? I kind of want to avoid getting a fuel cell. More money.
Modifying the tank is out, since it is plastic. Can the fill door and nozzle be relocated?
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Re: B4 80 2.slow autoFWD -> 80Q AEB 5sp

Postby Dave » Tue Aug 05, 2014 9:54 am

I'm assuming finding a b4 quattro tank is out of the question?
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Re: B4 80 2.slow autoFWD -> 80Q AEB 5sp

Postby ChrisAudi80 » Wed Aug 06, 2014 2:59 am

Dave wrote:I'm assuming finding a b4 quattro tank is out of the question?

In this country it is unobtainium. Importing one would very expensive. And it has to go by sea freight because it is a used fuel system.
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Re: B4 80 2.slow autoFWD -> 80Q AEB 5sp

Postby ChrisAudi80 » Fri Aug 08, 2014 11:12 pm

Went for a look yesterday. Talked with the guy about the fuel tank. He said we could take it t a body shop to relocate the nozzle and door.
Those seats are going be sooo good.

The engine and trans is in. Working on wiring.
PICS!
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Re: B4 80 2.slow autoFWD -> 80Q AEB 5sp

Postby ChrisAudi80 » Sat Aug 16, 2014 7:36 am

Went to check out the progress today.

Rear subframe, rear struts and axles is in, motor and trans, driveshaft is in, IC and crossover pipe and wiring is ongoing.
They were working on making one of the front axles when I was there.

The dude I got the pedal assembly, clutch line and brake stuff from did not include the clutch MC first time around :shame: , but that is now on the way.
Looks like I will have to go fuel cell on this after all. Will probably put it in the spare wheel well.
Would like a 70 liter tank, but we will see.

PICS
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Re: B4 80 2.slow autoFWD -> 80Q AEB 5sp

Postby ChrisAudi80 » Sat Aug 16, 2014 7:45 am

Also, they said that they will use C5 hubs to put on the front. Easier to mod than the B5 hubs. Rear is taken care of by the B5 subframe. I believe the B5 calipers and discs will fit on that.
Will put my old UrS6 16" wheels on with 225s.

However, the rear discs are real rough. Quite rusty. Should I get new discs and pads or can the old discs be fixed?

Anybody have an idea of what kind of TQ I could get with VEMS, 630CC injectors, 06A coils, E85 and the stock K03 vs. K04-015?
I am looking for a wide, flat torque band, instead of peak power. I read that the K04 will increase the effective rev range of the turbo to about 6000.
I have seen this:
http://www.audiworld.com/tech/eng27.shtml
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Re: B4 80 2.slow autoFWD -> 80Q AEB 5sp

Postby PRY4SNO » Sat Aug 16, 2014 11:50 am

Check out a electrolysis if you want to repair/restore the calipers.

For example, http://www.s2forum.com/forum/showthread.php?p=795043
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Re: B4 80 2.slow autoFWD -> 80Q AEB 5sp

Postby ChrisAudi80 » Sat Aug 16, 2014 8:45 pm

PRY4SNO wrote:Check out a electrolysis if you want to repair/restore the calipers.

For example, http://www.s2forum.com/forum/showthread.php?p=795043

:ty:
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Re: B4 80 2.slow autoFWD -> 80Q AEB 5sp

Postby ChrisAudi80 » Thu Aug 28, 2014 2:38 am

Looks like the front hubs conversion to 5 bolt is more complicated than thought. Apparently, C4 front hubs with the 2.3 engine might work with minor work. Anybody have some front S2 hubs for sale? :mad:

The car is almost done. Went to check real quick yesterday, also to bring the clutch MC. Forgot to take pictures.

It is running!

They put the B5Q fuel tank in the trunk "temporarily" so it can run. The gauge cluster from the B5 fits real nice and looks good.
So now I have the UrS6 wheels on the back and my old B4 wheels on the front. There is a big difference in diameter, so I don't really want to drive it. Also, because they put a temp open DP on it. Loud.
Still need a shift knob, but I have a CF handle they will mod to use as shift knob.

I am planning on getting a full 2.5" exhaust, DP to tip with bung for WBO2.
Also need to get a fuel tank fabbed up. If I got my math right, for a 70L tank, I need a box 50x50x28cms.
Should I get an AL or SS tank to run E85? Baffles? I read foam is no go for E85.
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Re: B4 80 2.slow autoFWD -> 80Q AEB 5sp

Postby ChrisAudi80 » Sat Aug 30, 2014 11:09 pm

Turns out that for this car to get 5 bolt hubs, I need hubs from a 100/A6 C4 2.3. They are the only ones that will work without major modification.
They are hard to find now. I can drive it now, but the open exhaust is loud. They managed to get the passenger (driver side for you guys) in, but not the driver side. It was missing a rail. Got that yesterday. These Recaros (from an A3 I believe) do not fit without cutting and welding.

Talked to the welding shop. They recommended 2mm AL plate for the fuel tank. They will also fab the 2.5" DP and exhaust. Decided to use the old end muffler from the 80 to save some cash.

The work has gone a little over budget already. Duh. :roll:
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Re: B4 80 80Q AEB 5sp conversion done

Postby ChrisAudi80 » Sat Sep 06, 2014 7:15 am

The car is now done at the shop. Just need a 2.5" DP and exhaust system and fuel tank/cell.

The 5 lug front hub conversion was done with the A6 2.3 hubs. The A3(S3?) Recaros are in! Electric seats in the B4. I heard that others here want to do the same conversion.
However, the Weitec cup kit springs on the front had to be swapped out for stockers. One of the springs is worn out. An inch shorter than the other front. WTF? Might cut a half coil off the springs.

Will post up some new pics soon after the exhaust and tank is done.
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Re: B4 80 80Q AEB 5sp conversion done

Postby my2000apb » Sat Sep 06, 2014 1:25 pm

if you use aluminum for the sump it will need to be anodized to deal with the corrosive nature of alcohol
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Re: B4 80 80Q AEB 5sp conversion done

Postby Hank » Sat Sep 06, 2014 2:52 pm

Tim, stick a piece of aluminum in a bucket of e85 and let it sit for a year or so and let me know whatcha think.


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Re: B4 80 80Q AEB 5sp conversion done

Postby my2000apb » Sat Sep 06, 2014 4:03 pm

Hank wrote:Tim, stick a piece of aluminum in a bucket of e85 and let it sit for a year or so and let me know whatcha think.


Hank



so am I wrong? so it prob takes like ten years or something, its just something ive always heard about alcohol and aluminum.
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Re: B4 80 80Q AEB 5sp conversion done

Postby ChrisAudi80 » Sun Sep 07, 2014 12:22 am

my2000apb wrote:
Hank wrote:Tim, stick a piece of aluminum in a bucket of e85 and let it sit for a year or so and let me know whatcha think.


Hank



so am I wrong? so it prob takes like ten years or something, its just something ive always heard about alcohol and aluminum.


Its OK. I will go to another exhaust shop on Monday to get the exhaust system done. They can make the tank out of SS. The corrosion is so slight it will not be noticeable for a very long time.

So stoked about this car... :D
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Re: B4 80 80Q AEB 5sp conversion done

Postby Hank » Sun Sep 07, 2014 12:54 am

Pure e100 is one thing, but E85 is fine. I have looked at 5 year old raw fuel rails run with e85 only and they are as shiny as the day I put them on.

Methanol on the other hand pure is pretty hard. I have seen it eat through anodized fittings.
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Re: B4 80Q AEB 5sp conversion done

Postby ChrisAudi80 » Sun Sep 07, 2014 10:42 am

PICS :D
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Re: B4 80Q AEB 5sp conversion done

Postby ChrisAudi80 » Sun Sep 07, 2014 10:53 am

I am not so sure what to do about this IC set up. Should I try to stuff a small FMIC in the front bumper (might have to cut) and lose the crossover pipe made or try to go AWIC? AWIC with HE, fan and water res?
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