Pat's 1983 URQ Alpine white #603 , 20V in progress

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Re: Pat's 1983 URQ Alpine white #603 , 20V in progress

Postby dougkehl » Wed Aug 09, 2017 9:34 am

My vote goes for option 1 or option 3 for the power steering pump. I think if you could manage to make the electric power steering pump work, that would be pretty sweet. Of course it means more wiring and wiring that was never in the car, which kinda sucks.

I'd probably end up going with option 1 because it's a little bit easier. At least it seems that way to me.
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Re: Pat's 1983 URQ Alpine white #603 , 20V in progress

Postby Afterthought » Wed Aug 09, 2017 12:02 pm

dougkehl wrote:My vote goes for option 1 or option 3 for the power steering pump. I think if you could manage to make the electric power steering pump work, that would be pretty sweet. Of course it means more wiring and wiring that was never in the car, which kinda sucks.

I'd probably end up going with option 1 because it's a little bit easier. At least it seems that way to me.

At the moment my gut feel is to do PS and alternator on the drivers side with sweet V-belt tensioners. And an inter cooler on right . Biggest one I can fit with some ducting into it .
That leaves me the electric pump and serpentine belt setup for my other URQ if/when I choose to swap it . That way I can do any cutting or modification before I paint the engine bay and make anything I need to add look OEM .



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Pat's 1983 URQ Alpine white #603 , 20V in progress

Postby Afterthought » Fri Aug 11, 2017 10:25 pm

Still working on the brackets and what not. Now thinking about front mount and alternator on the passenger side ...
for a few little things done but had to spend a few hours rounding up odds and ends like m4 0.7 thread pitch bolts and Inlet/outlet fittings for fuel pressure regulator and fuel rail .
Got the rail shaved down a little so the connectors fit now and it looks like everything will fit nicely , tight but it will look good.
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0.020 " off allows me just enough room for the connectors to fit when the rail is fully seated with no interference, but only with the #1 injector rotated forward. I don't know if this matters or what it does with spray pattern but I do know that's the only way it's fitting between this manifold and the head
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Getting things sorted out near the firewall. I will probably do a nice heat shield around the downpipe but could also do a cover over the wiring and could too (maybe something maybe that looks like the factory battery cover some audis have ? ) not sure if necessary or not
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Found a place for the fuel pressure regulator, will have to remember which port gets plugged . If I remember Inlet is either side and outlet is bottom and one side gets plugged in a single rail set-up
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Next I need to find a spot for the breather catch can , may go between the booster and connectors ? Unsure
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Re: Pat's 1983 URQ Alpine white #603 , 20V in progress

Postby Marc » Sat Aug 12, 2017 12:36 am

yes. bottom is return. sides are inlet. you use both sides for a v8 setup, plug one for an inline motor.

looking good. keep it up.
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Pat's 1983 URQ Alpine white #603 , 20V in progress

Postby Afterthought » Mon Aug 14, 2017 8:45 am

Couple more things done ,
Installed my breather and made a bracket to hold the catch can. Added AN fittings to it, then Painted the catch can and it's curing now .
Installed senders for EGT, oil pressure , coolant temp. Gauges . Spent a lot of time finding little fittings and what not .
EGT was a real pain in the ass had to remove downpipe and turbo and weld the bottom of the bung upside down with a mirror .
Coolant temp gauge sender : Autometer # 2267 (m14x1.5 to 1/8" NPT adapter )
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Oil pressure sender: auto meter 2265 (1:8" NPT female to 10x1 male)
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EGT
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Block breather in
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Placement of alternator . Cut some spacers for it to finish the bracket and got an M8x105mm bolt for it .
Now just need something to tension it with
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Pat's 1983 URQ Alpine white #603 , 20V in progress

Postby Afterthought » Mon Aug 14, 2017 10:37 am

So I guess it's time to start looking into the front mount Intercooler. I need a core less than 2.5" thick maybe 9" in height or so . I'll look to see if treadstone has anything .
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Re: Pat's 1983 URQ Alpine white #603 , 20V in progress

Postby Driggs » Tue Aug 15, 2017 9:24 pm

Thank you for doing this. Itll make my build go much quicker as I can just steal your ideas ;)
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Re: Pat's 1983 URQ Alpine white #603 , 20V in progress

Postby Afterthought » Wed Aug 16, 2017 6:10 am

Driggs wrote:Thank you for doing this. Itll make my build go much quicker as I can just steal your ideas ;)

Hey Driggs. You know a lot of my ideas I saw or heard somewhere too. But any questions you have let me know, I like talking URQ and I think this is my third AAN swap Now so I have done a few different configurations ( forward facing mani, 3B manifold, aan manifold, serpentine belt, v-belt , etc)
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Re: Pat's 1983 URQ Alpine white #603 , 20V in progress

Postby Driggs » Wed Aug 16, 2017 3:51 pm

Youll have to come down and help with mine when i get closer.. which is soon!

I am stupid excited about the wiring. cant wait to make my own loom.

How has VEMS been for you? super reliable and good running on a stock motor?
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84 4ksq
91 200q 20v
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Pat's 1983 URQ Alpine white #603 , 20V in progress

Postby Afterthought » Wed Aug 16, 2017 5:40 pm

If you need I have a VEMS base loom you can use to make your own if that's your sort of thing. I farmed the job out to Marc !

I have not run VEMS in this car but I have had two AAN engines with it before .
If you want your car to run perfect in all conditions I would imagine that one of the Motronic tunes would be the best probably but it depends on your setup.

I have used VEMS because my cars tend to go through a lot of changes along the way and everything is so far from stock that no chip tune would apply. If you're a set it and forget it type of guy maybe ask Marc what would be the best route .
I also changed around the intake and ran mafless speed-density tune but if I am not mistaken that is available from Marc now too but in motronic. Also another option is run the vems and get it tuned by someone like Marc if you are not wanting to tune yourself.
I have been able to get VEMS to start, idle , and run good in all weather, hold full boost in all conditions here in wa- but that's with Marc's basemap to start with so I wasn't starting from scratch and probably most of the hard work was done . But I enjoy the process of learning how things function and make the car run right . I like being able to change boost levels , idle speed and all these other parameters and if I change a turbo or something and not have to do a retune of an expensive tune I paid for . Only have so much budget for the URQ s :)
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Re: Pat's 1983 URQ Alpine white #603 , 20V in progress

Postby Driggs » Thu Aug 17, 2017 1:10 pm

I love tinkering.. and the vems seems like a route best for me as I love the options it presents.

I was going to run aan ecu and harness but i have since lost contact with the person selling one.. and right now I dont have a 3b harness
83 urq
84 4ksq
91 200q 20v
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Re: Pat's 1983 URQ Alpine white #603 , 20V in progress

Postby Afterthought » Thu Aug 24, 2017 8:22 pm

I can help you with some of the options . I have run 3 different type of harnesses but I have always run some version of coil near plug and an AAN head (never done the 3B setup with dist. ) so that would limit your choices if that's how you're going to run it. I have spliced the aan harness into B2 car and b3 car . For this one I wanted the cleanest possible setup in the engine bay and less splicing in the cabin which is why I got the harness from Marc .



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Re: Pat's 1983 URQ Alpine white #603 , 20V in progress

Postby Afterthought » Thu Aug 24, 2017 8:26 pm

Fuel lines in and catch can placed in the engine bay and finished the lines.
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Ended up having to cut the fuel lines way lower and put in new fittings which is super awesome to do in a such a tight spot
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Re: Pat's 1983 URQ Alpine white #603 , 20V in progress

Postby Afterthought » Sat Aug 26, 2017 2:54 pm

Got some spacers done for the PS pump and just need 2x 12mm spacers for the Alternator then I will be on To making the tensioners.
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So let's see if my memory serves me correct or not. This is the first 3B block I've had , past engines were AAN . This is a 3B block with aan head which shouldn't change anything as far as the belt goes .

The timing belt looks tight to me .
I've double checked my PN 054 109 119 G . If I want to get the belt on the tensioner has to be as loose as it can go and that puts the belt at proper tension .absolutely no slack anywhere .
Idler pulley looks right too : INA F-220125
Bottom pulley is stock , can gear is Tommi's billet for I-5
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Re: Pat's 1983 URQ Alpine white #603 , 20V in progress

Postby Afterthought » Sat Aug 26, 2017 2:58 pm

Got some spacers done for the PS pump and just need 2x 12mm spacers for the Alternator then I will be on To making the tensioners.
Image

So let's see if my memory serves me correct or not. This is the first 3B block I've had , past engines were AAN . This is a 3B block with aan head which shouldn't change anything as far as the belt goes .

The timing belt looks tight to me .
I've double checked my PN 054 109 119 G . If I want to get the belt on the tensioner has to be as loose as it can go and that puts the belt at proper tension .absolutely no slack anywhere .
Idler pulley looks right too : INA F-220125
Bottom pulley is stock , can gear is Tommi's billet for I-5
Image
ImageImage
Image






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Re: Pat's 1983 URQ Alpine white #603 , 20V in progress

Postby 85oceanic » Sat Aug 26, 2017 5:45 pm

Looking really good man! I dig the catch-can setup. I have the same crank vent for my block, I just haven't had the chance to get it installed yet. Me likey.
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Re: Pat's 1983 URQ Alpine white #603 , 20V in progress

Postby Afterthought » Sun Aug 27, 2017 11:18 am

The breather is very easy to put in , hardest part is pryong the old one out .
I have some various ideas of how that thing is going to be routed. I may plug the drain for a while and see what builds up in there so I can double check that I'm not putting water back into the oil.
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Re: Pat's 1983 URQ Alpine white #603 , 20V in progress

Postby Afterthought » Thu Aug 31, 2017 5:50 pm

Trying something new with one of my valve covers . Going for a kind of works look. Not sure if it will get powder coat or wrinkle coat
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Re: Pat's 1983 URQ Alpine white #603 , 20V in progress

Postby PRY4SNO » Thu Aug 31, 2017 8:54 pm

Hmmmm... is this going to be made to look like the SQ valve covers, with the DOHC 20V on the same axis as the cooling vanes? Or just flush?
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Re: Pat's 1983 URQ Alpine white #603 , 20V in progress

Postby Afterthought » Thu Aug 31, 2017 9:16 pm

PRY4SNO wrote:Hmmmm... is this going to be made to look like the SQ valve covers, with the DOHC 20V on the same axis as the cooling vanes? Or just flush?

I haven't gone any farther yet than what you see there , but the plan was just to make it flat. I tried doing that one of my other ones and it came out good . I flattened then powder coated it - but it's in the car and I sold it !
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Pat's 1983 URQ Alpine white #603 , 20V in progress

Postby Afterthought » Mon Sep 04, 2017 4:52 pm

Edit: duplicate
Last edited by Afterthought on Mon Sep 04, 2017 6:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Pat's 1983 URQ Alpine white #603 , 20V in progress

Postby Afterthought » Mon Sep 04, 2017 4:52 pm

Starting to look at the fitment of the intercooler now .
A modded AAN Intake manifold would have been cheaper and much easier to fit something behind the grill. But that doesn't take anything flow or performance wise into account . Just "ease of fitment" and I guess if I wanted ease I would be building a custom URQ.
So here are the issues .
*with no throttle body or IAT sensor in place , I "could" fit a 2.25" x 22"x ~7" tall core behind the grill.
The throttle body installed that dimension is shaved down to 18" approximate total width or core + end tank. So I lose 4" of core width .
* this intake manifold, my wiring harness, and the location of the TB all make fitting the power steering pump on the passenger side by the snub mount the best option.
So with that in mind here are the pictures .
Not much space here , advantage : core depth could be up to 10" or more , disadvantages: poor surface area , less than ideal airflow, unnecessary piping .
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22" core , great placement for airflow , great everywhere except for where the TPS is .
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Fitment without TB and IAT in place
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So a couple options I see and the associated questions .
1) get a 2.25" x 22 x 7 core , do not hack Intake manifold but make a small extension to move the TB , IAT further "out" towards fender. Scoot engine back as far as possible in mounts .
2)get a 2.25" x 16" core as wide as possible and avoid the TB , run it in pictured location
3) next option , try and fit an even larger core , say 3" thick and 22" x 7" slightly smaller than what Audi sport used .
4) largest side mount possible . Run ducting and shrouds to direct flow in&out

Questions :
Say on a 2.25" x 18" intercooler , I up the core size to 3" x 18" . Changing that one dimension only , how much will that gain me ?
Advantages I can see in pushing to fit a 3" core ( not sure in what magnitude whether small or large )
-higher flow
-less differential pressure across IC
-lower velocity to achieve same flow rate ?
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Re: Pat's 1983 URQ Alpine white #603 , 20V in progress

Postby Marc » Tue Sep 05, 2017 5:31 am

I vote for option 4. rotate the throttle body 90 degrees.
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Re: Pat's 1983 URQ Alpine white #603 , 20V in progress

Postby Afterthought » Tue Sep 05, 2017 5:40 pm

Marc wrote:I vote for option 4. rotate the throttle body 90 degrees.

So here is where that gets me .
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It looks good . I don't recall the thickness of the IAT sensor . In the process of finding a used one . But either way- I can relocate that too if needed .
So all I need is to find a couple of aluminum flanges and the pipe I already have .
That allows me to run a 22 x 2.25 x 7 core . I'm still not sure if that's big enough or how much pressure drop across it , or if that matters . But it would be a pretty nice fit up there and best case scenario with the intake manifold I am running .


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Re: Pat's 1983 URQ Alpine white #603 , 20V in progress

Postby PRY4SNO » Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:09 pm

Rotating the TB 90* relative to the existing flange looks very tidy.

What about possibly shortening the 5R bend on the inlet to a SR 90* bend and using a rolling offset to angle it down 45* while you're at it? That would bring the inlet of the TB down and into the engine, while keeping clearance between the FMIC and the radiator? Then again, modifying the intake could prove costly if it doesn't pan out as expected. Decisions, decisions...
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