Ben's 95 90 Quattro 20vT project

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Re: Ben's 95 90 Quattro 20vT project

Postby Grillage » Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:52 pm

Got the Brackets back from the metal dipper/cleaner today.

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Got the Driver's side cut off of the frame rail bit and went to fit it. There are some differences with the frame rail but nothing that will keep me from using this I think.
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There is a divot where the top rail of the bracket hits the rail on the parts I have - but not on my frame:

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I think I'll keep the other side using the B4 mount and I'll just do this side welded in. Need to cut out the radiator side mount too eventually.
I believe I'll need to cut the bungs off of my driver's side frame rail where the B4 mounts bolts thread in.
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1994 Cabriolet - 5 speed

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Re: Ben's 95 90 Quattro 20vT project

Postby Grillage » Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:07 pm

Fun stuff arrived today:

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Jetex Exhaust for Rs2

also AZC 4.11 Locking B4 Rear Diff - should work with the 01E
CURRENT
1995 90 Quattro
1994 Cabriolet - 5 speed

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Re: Ben's 95 90 Quattro 20vT project

Postby speedydtp247 » Sat Jun 16, 2018 7:33 pm

Grillage wrote:So naturally, it's time to pull the engine and put this fella in there!
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I sold my Maserati this last week so some of the funds are going toward this project.

I approve this message :thumbsup: and I can't wait to see the end results!

Wow that engine bay cleaned up nicely.

Grillage wrote:Fun stuff arrived today:

Image

Jetex Exhaust for Rs2

Please take some vids as I'm curious what that exhaust sounds like
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Re: Ben's 95 90 Quattro 20vT project

Postby Grillage » Thu Aug 02, 2018 12:11 pm

Many updates:

Firstly,
I got the brackets welded in and painted:
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Used the off-white, then the pearly spraypaint and the match is close enough for me!

Also, I got the 01E swap all figured out.

Started by laying out the two systems:
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and they are the same length overall

On the left above is 01E, B5 S4 driveshaft, and B4 AZC 4.11 rear differential.
On the right, the stock B4 V6 stuff - 01A, B4 driveshaft, stock 3.89 rear diff

The 01E is 33 1/2" long
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The O1A is about 32 1/2" long
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So the driveshaft for the 01E needs to be roughly 1" shorter.
Here are the B5 S4 shaft alongside the V6 shaft:
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44 1/2" for hte B5 S4 and 45 1/2" for the B4 V6 shafts.

However, note that the carrier bearing is in a different place for the two driveshafts. Also, the B5 S4 bearing is made to extend about 1 1/4" further:
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The issue is that the bearing hits the mounts from the B4 here:
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Those of you that weld would likely just move the mounts - I however cannot so I made a bit of an extender with 1 1/4" square steel from Home depot:
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Need to do a bit of fine tuning to get it 100% straight but seems like it should work!

Also got the fuel pump swapped out. I ordered a walbro from Marc and his dual pump bracket
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Did the heater core job and re-foamed the flaps
The before pics are actually not that bad but - while I'm in there....
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Then I believe I have the V belt figured out now. There was a 91 CQ in a junkyard in Louisville that I was able to pull a bunch of stuff from

Now I have the following mockups:
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Also with the AC compressor attached:
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And now with the AC on that side, I needed to source this for the Oil return - which I have:
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Also I made the wiring harness:
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A little more to do with it but largely done and squeezed everything through the firewall

Lastly, I test fit that Jetex Exhaust with the driveshaft in place. Seems like a great option for the cost. I'll need to connect from the downpipe to the Jetex but all in all I'm glad I found it
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CURRENT
1995 90 Quattro
1994 Cabriolet - 5 speed

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1993 Audi 90 CS Quattro - 1990 CQ - V8 - 1995.5 Audi S6 - 1993 Audi V8 - 2013 A5 Prestige - 2011 A4 Avant - 1986 Maserati Biturbo Spyder
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Re: Ben's 95 90 Quattro 20vT project

Postby DE80q » Thu Aug 02, 2018 12:51 pm

Nicely done Ben! I really look forward to seeing your creation at Carlisle... Next year?
"If you can't find one, make one"

Dallastown, PA
1991 Audi 80 quattro (10vt project)
2007 Mitsubishi Raider(Dakota in disguise)
2014 Chevy traverse (It's what she wanted)
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Re: Ben's 95 90 Quattro 20vT project

Postby Grillage » Mon Aug 27, 2018 7:39 am

More Progress happening a little slowly.

The wiring is down to 1 or 2 loose wires and then going through it all to ensure I don't blow up the VEMS or anything else

A couple questions for those that have done small chassis AAN swaps:


Do I want to use hte Auxillary Coolant Pump? I think I should be able to wire it in if needed

On the PCV system:
Do I need to tap a breather or vent into my 3B valve cover?
It seems like I can use the AAN system but I'll need to run a pipe to replace the one that ran inside the AAN valve cover and would need to tap into the 3b cover at the back side

Lastly, has anyone run the EFI LS coilpack setup in a small chassis? I can't figure out anywhere the bracket will fit for me.



Some other updates:

I found a suitable crank bolt replacement on the QW forum:
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It's a BMW part: https://www.autohausaz.com/pn/BM-11231736585

Got the new oil pan wing installed and the turbo oil return replumbed:
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And lastly, a bit of clearancing to fit the turbo and downpipe. I've since also installed some adhesive heat reflective tape there.
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CURRENT
1995 90 Quattro
1994 Cabriolet - 5 speed

PAST
1993 Audi 90 CS Quattro - 1990 CQ - V8 - 1995.5 Audi S6 - 1993 Audi V8 - 2013 A5 Prestige - 2011 A4 Avant - 1986 Maserati Biturbo Spyder
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Re: Ben's 95 90 Quattro 20vT project

Postby Afterthought » Mon Aug 27, 2018 10:15 pm

Man I was battling the same thing with my efr it’s tight over there .

I am running those LS coils with Marc’s bracket . I couldn’t find anywhere to “hide” it but at least the bracket is nice and professional Looking . I just have it on my firewall. Was posting today in my own The was about trying to come up with an idea to cover the mess of wires I have over there haha. Maybe a battery box or alum. Shroud .
Another option if you ditch the bracket is you could mount them elsewhere and you’d have to make your own bracket in that case.
Image
****
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Re: Ben's 95 90 Quattro 20vT project

Postby Grillage » Sun Sep 02, 2018 7:57 pm

More progress today and some more problems are showing up

Got a few things from 034, their S2 coolant hose kit as well as an ABY boost hose kit. I've been trying to decide between ABY or 3B boost hoses and while I think 3B would be more correct (3b intercooler and crosspiece) but 034 put their last ABY kit on sale for half off - so I bought it.

The coolant hoses are all good - everything fits as it should. I have some of the rubber hoses but not all and they're all super old.

The boost hoses are a different story. The intercooler to charge pipe hose should work but will need to be cut since the 3b cross piece has a 90 that the ABY doesn't. But it should work just fine. The turbo to intercooler is a little more difficult. The EFR turbo is clocked super weird due to the built-in wastegate and so I will need to add a 90* elbow from the hose to the IC. should work ok too.

Also, I found a good solution for the Coil bracket. Had to remove the little shelf that held the cruise control pump under it:
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I mocked up all the cooling and fan as well:
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Feels like I'm getting closer!

Now for the problems.

I had the shifter linkage all set and working before I put the engine in with clutch and flywheel. Now with everything installed, I can't put it into reverse. I have no clutch since nothing's bled but still, I am alarmed

Also, now that I have everything in, I bounced the engine a bit and I clearly need a solid motor mount for the PS to keep the turbo and such from hitting the frame rail. Are there solid B4 mounts?

anyway, happy labor day weekend!
CURRENT
1995 90 Quattro
1994 Cabriolet - 5 speed

PAST
1993 Audi 90 CS Quattro - 1990 CQ - V8 - 1995.5 Audi S6 - 1993 Audi V8 - 2013 A5 Prestige - 2011 A4 Avant - 1986 Maserati Biturbo Spyder
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Re: Ben's 95 90 Quattro 20vT project

Postby Lucky » Mon Sep 03, 2018 5:47 am

In my 01e swapped 80 it rarely will go into reverse without the clutch. Its a notchy gear with no syncros. If it's on the ground have someone gently push the car and hold it in reverse it will probably pop right into gear. Sometimes I need to select first before reverse or even slightly let out the clutch to get things spinning so it will engage.

Edit: I was able to select reverse fairly easily on the ground before install also.
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Re: Ben's 95 90 Quattro 20vT project

Postby Grillage » Mon Sep 03, 2018 6:44 am

Lucky wrote:In my 01e swapped 80 it rarely will go into reverse without the clutch. Its a notchy gear with no syncros. If it's on the ground have someone gently push the car and hold it in reverse it will probably pop right into gear. Sometimes I need to select first before reverse or even slightly let out the clutch to get things spinning so it will engage.

Edit: I was able to select reverse fairly easily on the ground before install also.


This is very good to hear - thank you!

It's on 4 jackstands so I can't try the on the ground trick. I am at the point where I can bleed the clutch though. I need to do that soon either way
CURRENT
1995 90 Quattro
1994 Cabriolet - 5 speed

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1993 Audi 90 CS Quattro - 1990 CQ - V8 - 1995.5 Audi S6 - 1993 Audi V8 - 2013 A5 Prestige - 2011 A4 Avant - 1986 Maserati Biturbo Spyder
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Re: Ben's 95 90 Quattro 20vT project

Postby Grillage » Mon Sep 03, 2018 9:15 am

Ran some brake fluid through my clutch (new master and slave)

With it al bled and the clutch in I get reverse! Hooray!
CURRENT
1995 90 Quattro
1994 Cabriolet - 5 speed

PAST
1993 Audi 90 CS Quattro - 1990 CQ - V8 - 1995.5 Audi S6 - 1993 Audi V8 - 2013 A5 Prestige - 2011 A4 Avant - 1986 Maserati Biturbo Spyder
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Re: Ben's 95 90 Quattro 20vT project

Postby themagellan » Mon Sep 03, 2018 12:24 pm

Excellent! :beer:
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Re: Ben's 95 90 Quattro 20vT project

Postby DE80q » Mon Sep 03, 2018 12:57 pm

Well this is progressing nicely! Can't wait to see it in person next year!
"If you can't find one, make one"

Dallastown, PA
1991 Audi 80 quattro (10vt project)
2007 Mitsubishi Raider(Dakota in disguise)
2014 Chevy traverse (It's what she wanted)
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Re: Ben's 95 90 Quattro 20vT project

Postby Lucky » Mon Sep 03, 2018 6:50 pm

Grillage wrote:Ran some brake fluid through my clutch (new master and slave)

With it al bled and the clutch in I get reverse! Hooray!


Good stuff!
1988 audi 80, 1994 Urs4, 2005 Ranger
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Re: Ben's 95 90 Quattro 20vT project

Postby Grillage » Sat Sep 08, 2018 8:08 am

I figured out what the little "divot" in the driver's side frame is for on the CQ that isn't there on the B4:
This (pictured from a CQ:
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side by side - the cut out frame (with the mounting parts cut out) from a CQ next to my B4 frame:
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It makes room for the big fan. Mine is not quite fitting:
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I've done some BFH clearancing there but still not totally right. I'm going to end up moving that fan about a half inch forward - which makes the shrouding not quite fit.
CURRENT
1995 90 Quattro
1994 Cabriolet - 5 speed

PAST
1993 Audi 90 CS Quattro - 1990 CQ - V8 - 1995.5 Audi S6 - 1993 Audi V8 - 2013 A5 Prestige - 2011 A4 Avant - 1986 Maserati Biturbo Spyder
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Re: Ben's 95 90 Quattro 20vT project

Postby PRY4SNO » Sat Sep 08, 2018 2:29 pm

What if you torch that spot to help massage it a bit more?
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Re: Ben's 95 90 Quattro 20vT project

Postby Grillage » Sat Sep 08, 2018 2:31 pm

PRY4SNO wrote:What if you torch that spot to help massage it a bit more?

Didn’t think about that. Would it work you think?
CURRENT
1995 90 Quattro
1994 Cabriolet - 5 speed

PAST
1993 Audi 90 CS Quattro - 1990 CQ - V8 - 1995.5 Audi S6 - 1993 Audi V8 - 2013 A5 Prestige - 2011 A4 Avant - 1986 Maserati Biturbo Spyder
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Re: Ben's 95 90 Quattro 20vT project

Postby ringbearer » Sat Sep 08, 2018 2:36 pm

Yes, heat it up nice and hot and it will move! When you hit it with a BFH of course ;)
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Re: Ben's 95 90 Quattro 20vT project

Postby PRY4SNO » Sat Sep 08, 2018 3:20 pm

Exactly! Of course, you'll have to repaint that spot, but that's a small price to pay for a proper fitting fan.
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|| 2010 Golf Sportwagen TDI /// Farmenwagen
|| 1992 80 quattro 20v /// Eventual AAN'd Winter Sled
|| 1990 Coupe quattro /// Because Racecar

|| Spare parts for sale
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Re: Ben's 95 90 Quattro 20vT project

Postby Grillage » Sat Sep 08, 2018 3:28 pm

PRY4SNO wrote:Exactly! Of course, you'll have to repaint that spot, but that's a small price to pay for a proper fitting fan.

I had to repaint it already due to the motor mount brackets getting welded in there. So all good!
CURRENT
1995 90 Quattro
1994 Cabriolet - 5 speed

PAST
1993 Audi 90 CS Quattro - 1990 CQ - V8 - 1995.5 Audi S6 - 1993 Audi V8 - 2013 A5 Prestige - 2011 A4 Avant - 1986 Maserati Biturbo Spyder
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Re: Ben's 95 90 Quattro 20vT project

Postby Grillage » Mon Sep 17, 2018 7:14 pm

More progress:

Here's a whole bunch pics of me working out fitment of the intake, fuel pressure regulator and breather system:
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Also, VEMS - I'm in!
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Finally will be able to take the hood down from the ceiling!
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With the parts I have now installed and/or have shipping to me, I should be able to fire this bitch up!
CURRENT
1995 90 Quattro
1994 Cabriolet - 5 speed

PAST
1993 Audi 90 CS Quattro - 1990 CQ - V8 - 1995.5 Audi S6 - 1993 Audi V8 - 2013 A5 Prestige - 2011 A4 Avant - 1986 Maserati Biturbo Spyder
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Re: Ben's 95 90 Quattro 20vT project

Postby Grillage » Fri Oct 05, 2018 8:12 am

I'm hoping tomorrow is the day to try and fire this thing up.

A few questions for the collective:

I am currently running a stock 7a radiator and I am expecting that I'll want to upgrade to a larger one before long. I have seen the ones that Vidar makes on the S2 forum and they seem to be of high quality (https://www.s2forum.com/forum/member-s- ... se?t=71720)

They come in a bunch of thicknesses - 56mm to 100mm and while I want to run a larger radiator, I also want to run AC in this car so I am nervous about too much additional thickness being added to the fan/radiator/condenser assembly. The stock 7A is about 50mm thick. Also, with the B4 frame rails, the fan shroud doesn't really fit all that well in the stock position. I had to beat a little divot in the frame to get it to fit. So I may choose to go with a different (thinner) fan/shroud setup and use a fan speed controller like I did on my V8 CQ - I never had any trouble with that and it was super simple. That would let me push the radiator back a bit.

Anyway, what has everyone used for larger radiators if not these? I have two of the Aux radiators too and I have no reason not to run the aux radiator but I see a lot of people eliminate them. What's the reasoning for that?

I found I had a bad TPS sensor and replaced it, also though, VEMS reads a super high IAT so I think I want to replace that sensor. It appears to be soldered into the harness. What does everyone use as a replacement? since I'm VEMS, could I go with a different (cheaper/easier to source) sensor and adjust the temp curve?


Let's talk Break-in also. This engine has been gone through and machined. New rods, rings etc. What's the best startup procedure for such an engine, and what about a break-in timeline?
CURRENT
1995 90 Quattro
1994 Cabriolet - 5 speed

PAST
1993 Audi 90 CS Quattro - 1990 CQ - V8 - 1995.5 Audi S6 - 1993 Audi V8 - 2013 A5 Prestige - 2011 A4 Avant - 1986 Maserati Biturbo Spyder
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Re: Ben's 95 90 Quattro 20vT project

Postby PRY4SNO » Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:18 pm

http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm *runs :hide:

I think a lot of people delete the aux rad because they aren't super effective in the first place, and that's an ideal spot for an oil cooler. Maybe that's just me.
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|| 2010 Golf Sportwagen TDI /// Farmenwagen
|| 1992 80 quattro 20v /// Eventual AAN'd Winter Sled
|| 1990 Coupe quattro /// Because Racecar

|| Spare parts for sale
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Re: Ben's 95 90 Quattro 20vT project

Postby Afterthought » Fri Oct 05, 2018 4:47 pm

So wait that turbo bolts right to the manifold and clears the frame rail like that ? Nice . It tucks down there nicely .

I’d be interested what others have to say about break in, I’m going through the same thing but for what it’s worth heres what I’ve done on my rebuilt engine (rings , rod and main bearings , valves are all new) z
Instead of synthetic I’m using Dino oil for break In.
Primed the oil system by cranking without fuel pump relay in.
Disconnected N75 (or disable in VEMS ) so no boost.
started the car and let it get to full temp, have my own oil press and coolant temp gauge hooked up for startup. Check for leaks etc. make sure rad fan is working , check levels.
Massage the VEMS tune.
Then I drove around easy on the car but also found some small hills to get the car under moderate load (but again no boost) to seat the rings .
Let car cool fully , recheck everything .
Now the car has been through many heat cycles . I’ve changed the oil at 100 miles and will change again soon.
I’m daily driving the car now going around and keeping the rpm from going too high but vary the rpm and load on the engine (as in don’t just keep it at 3k on the highway) .
If you’re running ARP head studs, they say you want to retorque the head studs as the bolts will stretch a little . I’ve heard anywhere from a few heat cycles to 500 miles .

The machinists have told me that to seat the rings you need some load on the engine and so I did everything i could to make sure the car was ready to drive before starting It up but had to smooth out a number of things in VEMS still. So I tried to be conscious of just not letting the car idle forever .
****
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Re: Ben's 95 90 Quattro 20vT project

Postby vt10vt » Sat Oct 06, 2018 8:49 am

My approach is based on a ton of reading and talking to people, not perfect but it seems to work well and I've done it enough times (1.8T's) that I'm pretty confident in it, but it's pretty similar to Afterthought's process:

Conventional 40w oil
Crank with injectors unplugged, verify oil pressure at turbo oil feed
Start the car and keep the rev's moving, usually try to keep it somewhere between 2-5k free revving constantly
Get the car fully hot once doing the above
Change to conventional 5w40
Take a couple 20min ish drives keep varying the RPM's, give it some decent throttle and let it engine break down from higher RPM a bunch, I'll even feed it a little boost keeping it under 5k RPM
Check and make sure everything looks OK
Keep boost under 10PSI for the first 500mi
Change oil to synthetic 5w40 at 500mi
Change oil again after 1k miles
Enjoy!
-Shawn C.
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2002 01E B6 A4 Built FYF, Built 1.8T, HX35 ~330whp
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