The 20vt Quantum Syncro Wagon - The Group B Grocery Getter

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Re: The 20vt Quantum Syncro Wagon - The Group B Grocery Gett

Postby dougkehl » Mon Dec 04, 2017 8:07 pm

Einbilden wrote:Keep me posted please.


Will do!! If I ever get to that point where I can cast it. I found a place that will do one off castings, so I may inquire about pricing.. It's not how I want to do it, but I don't have a ton of time and I just got promoted with a nice raise, so having someone else do it may be the case if I can't get it cast with my coworker by like January haha. No matter what a manifold will be getting made!

But no real updates as of late. I've been busy with my new place. I actually recently purchased a 1957 ATC Terraloader 256 to move snow from my driveway, clear some roads through my property and haul large logs out. Some of you might think this is pretty cool!

My dad and my dog checking it out.
ImageIMG_9085 by dougkehl1, on Flickr
ImageIMG_9087 by dougkehl1, on Flickr

And this past weekend I was able to get the AAN into the garage up on the stand and start working on it.. I've only got the intake off so far, but it's a start.
ImageIMG_9130 by dougkehl1, on Flickr
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Re: The 20vt Quantum Syncro Wagon - The Group B Grocery Gett

Postby dana » Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:01 pm

I'm into that trackloader!!! Never heard of the make. What's the power plant?
current:
-mk4 tdi wagon with some mods
-TDI b3 90q, holset turbo, be strong little connecting rods!
-the turbo tractor
past:
-11 second 90q junker
-20vt swapped 90q winter beater
-efi 10vt 4kq
-way too many other long gone urs's, 200's 4000's, b5's
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Re: The 20vt Quantum Syncro Wagon - The Group B Grocery Gett

Postby dougkehl » Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:26 pm

dana wrote:I'm into that trackloader!!! Never heard of the make. What's the power plant?


I shouldn't have abbreviated the name. It's an American Tractor Corporation which specialized in crawlers/dozers. They were bought by Case in late '57, so it's basically a Case because Case didn't change anything on these for a few years. It's got a good old Continental F140 flathead in it. I love the old Continental flatheads, and this one runs like a top!! And with the 3 speed gear box and a new set of track adjusters my dad and I fabbed up, the thing boogies along pretty darn good and can turn on a dime just about!
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Re: The 20vt Quantum Syncro Wagon - The Group B Grocery Gett

Postby PRY4SNO » Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:34 pm

Man, I just look at the details in the background of your pics and think envious thoughts about how you (and plenty others around here) have a small fortune amassed in tools and equipment that make killer projects like yours possible by a one man band.

Good reminder that Rome wasn't built in a day and to keep to the grindstone. Thanks for the motivation :)
Find me on Instagram @pry4sno

|| 2010 Golf Sportwagen TDI /// Farmenwagen
|| 1992 80 quattro 20v /// Eventual AAN'd Winter Sled
|| 1990 Coupe quattro /// Because Racecar

|| Spare parts for sale
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Re: The 20vt Quantum Syncro Wagon - The Group B Grocery Gett

Postby dana » Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:33 am

ahh yes, that does look like a case. I have run a similar old case working on a farm in high school.

Tools and equipment is an awesome investment as far as I'm concerned. Especially older equipment if you can get something that is in usable condition. They basically never depreciate, and can pay for themselves with one big job. Plus equipment is awesome. /justification-for-dropping-thousands-per-year-old-machines.
current:
-mk4 tdi wagon with some mods
-TDI b3 90q, holset turbo, be strong little connecting rods!
-the turbo tractor
past:
-11 second 90q junker
-20vt swapped 90q winter beater
-efi 10vt 4kq
-way too many other long gone urs's, 200's 4000's, b5's
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Re: The 20vt Quantum Syncro Wagon - The Group B Grocery Gett

Postby the german » Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:27 am

I hear dana can help you put a turbo on it. Flatheads need all the help they can get, right?
Kirk

1990 ABZ CQ
1990 lifted CQ
2005 S4 6MT
2011 A4 2.0T Avant (ok, it's my wife's car but it's sexy and I love it)
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Re: The 20vt Quantum Syncro Wagon - The Group B Grocery Gett

Postby dana » Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:09 am

the german wrote:I hear dana can help you put a turbo on it. Flatheads need all the help they can get, right?

megasquirted and turbo'd flathead sounds about right to me.
current:
-mk4 tdi wagon with some mods
-TDI b3 90q, holset turbo, be strong little connecting rods!
-the turbo tractor
past:
-11 second 90q junker
-20vt swapped 90q winter beater
-efi 10vt 4kq
-way too many other long gone urs's, 200's 4000's, b5's
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Re: The 20vt Quantum Syncro Wagon - The Group B Grocery Gett

Postby dougkehl » Wed Dec 06, 2017 12:50 pm

dana wrote:
the german wrote:I hear dana can help you put a turbo on it. Flatheads need all the help they can get, right?

megasquirted and turbo'd flathead sounds about right to me.

I've got the K24 off the AAN that needs a rebuild and the first thing I thought when I bought it was, "I could rebuild that turbo and turbo this and it would be pretty goddamn cool".

PRY4SNO wrote:Man, I just look at the details in the background of your pics and think envious thoughts about how you (and plenty others around here) have a small fortune amassed in tools and equipment that make killer projects like yours possible by a one man band.

Good reminder that Rome wasn't built in a day and to keep to the grindstone. Thanks for the motivation :)

Thank you for the kind words! All good things take time whether it be collecting absurd quantities of tools or these cars we screw around with. It's all worth it in the end though!
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Re: The 20vt Quantum Syncro Wagon - The Group B Grocery Gett

Postby dougkehl » Wed Dec 06, 2017 12:56 pm

dana wrote:ahh yes, that does look like a case. I have run a similar old case working on a farm in high school.

Tools and equipment is an awesome investment as far as I'm concerned. Especially older equipment if you can get something that is in usable condition. They basically never depreciate, and can pay for themselves with one big job. Plus equipment is awesome. /justification-for-dropping-thousands-per-year-old-machines.


That's exactly it with this stuff. That crawler cost me $1400 and only needed track adjusters ($15 to make), the seat reupholstered (free cause I had material) and to have the gas tank cleaned, hence the boat gas tank on top. It starts right up, idles perfect, operates under load perfect, all the hydraulics work perfect. And I know for what I'm going to be able to do with it is going to pay for itself in no time. And obviously, the cool factor was too much for me to not buy it.
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Re: The 20vt Quantum Syncro Wagon - The Group B Grocery Gett

Postby dougkehl » Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:01 am

Played around and mocked up the whole intake.. It's a shame I don't have a spare head.. I'd just modify it and make this a direct-to-head throttle body set up instead of casting an adapter manifold. Anyway, it looks sweet.

ImageIMG_9178 by dougkehl1, on Flickr
ImageIMG_9179 by dougkehl1, on Flickr
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Re: The 20vt Quantum Syncro Wagon - The Group B Grocery Gett

Postby dougkehl » Tue Feb 20, 2018 8:07 am

Update time! I've decided that I'm not going to bother with trying to cast the manifold to mate the throttle bodies to the head for now. Maybe in the future, but for now I'm too busy and the guy who is willing to help me make the molds and has the ability to cast it is too busy as well.

Now I came to this decision, I decided I would just weld up a manifold and that would be good enough for me for now. I started with cutting the factory AAN manifold down to just the flange.
ImageIMG_9220 by dougkehl1, on Flickr

Then I picked up some aluminum bar that's 3/8" thick, 2.5" wide and 4ft long so I'd have extra. I took all the measurements from the throttle bodies and transferred that layout to a piece of the bar stock that was approximately 16" long. This layout was done with nothing more than a metric ruler and a vernier caliper and was eyeballed to the best of my ability. Then I drilled all the holes for the studs with a 5mm drill bit so they could be tapped with an M6x1.0 tap. I drilled the ports out with a 1.25" hole saw and then I finished expanding the ports to the proper dimensions with a die grinder. It came out perfect which made me happy considering I used pretty crude tools and eyeballed most of the measurements.
ImageIMG_9235 by dougkehl1, on Flickr
ImageIMG_9239 by dougkehl1, on Flickr
ImageIMG_9240 by dougkehl1, on Flickr

Then I picked up two small port 1.8t manifolds for about $40. I know small port, but I had a feeling after inspecting the manifolds for some time that if I cut them just before the injector cup the dimensions inside the runner should line up damn close with the port dimensions of the AAN head flange and sure enough they did.
ImageIMG_9226 by dougkehl1, on Flickr

Time for a quick mock up. which looked good, minus the length which may be a little long, but I will play with that.
ImageIMG_9231 by dougkehl1, on Flickr

Then I cut the rest of the runners and tacked everything up.
ImageIMG_9233 by dougkehl1, on Flickr
ImageIMG_9241 by dougkehl1, on Flickr
ImageIMG_9243 by dougkehl1, on Flickr
ImageIMG_9245 by dougkehl1, on Flickr

That's all for now. I should have this all welded up by the end of the week.
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Re: The 20vt Quantum Syncro Wagon - The Group B Grocery Gett

Postby dougkehl » Tue Feb 20, 2018 9:24 am

Also, for anyone that may know. Does the angle at which the engine sits change from a small chassis car to a big chassis car? Obviously this AAN came from a C4 and is going into a B2 chassis car and I want to make sure that there is no difference in how they sit before I get this all welded up and then find out it's not how it needs to be/how I want it.
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Re: The 20vt Quantum Syncro Wagon - The Group B Grocery Gett

Postby Foscora » Tue Feb 20, 2018 9:33 am

Well as far as I can tell, gearbox shares the same architecture either it's a B ou C chassis, they always "sit flat/straight", so I guess engines are always matched to them in the same position/angle .. (?) so unless 32Bs are any different than an Audi B2, I'd say : "nah"
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Re: The 20vt Quantum Syncro Wagon - The Group B Grocery Gett

Postby dougkehl » Tue Feb 20, 2018 9:50 am

That's a good point about the gearbox sharing the same architecture. I didn't think of it that way, but I suppose the angle must be the same based on how the engine bolts to the gearbox alone.

As for the nose, I do think the 32B has a bit more of an inclined nose, but it's minimal I think.
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Re: The 20vt Quantum Syncro Wagon - The Group B Grocery Gett

Postby the german » Tue Feb 20, 2018 11:22 am

Nice. Good work on the adapter plate and I like the use of recycled/re-purposed bits and pieces.
Kirk

1990 ABZ CQ
1990 lifted CQ
2005 S4 6MT
2011 A4 2.0T Avant (ok, it's my wife's car but it's sexy and I love it)
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Re: The 20vt Quantum Syncro Wagon - The Group B Grocery Gett

Postby Nateflix56 » Tue Feb 20, 2018 12:38 pm

Can't wait to see how that manifold turns out!
90 CQ - 07k Swap Pending
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98 Jetta VRT (Sold)
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Re: The 20vt Quantum Syncro Wagon - The Group B Grocery Gett

Postby PRY4SNO » Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:20 pm

I recall reading about the small port AMB being better due to velocity compared to the bigger AEB heads. Pretty sure it was from testing by Aaron on his Cq drag car?

At any rate... we gotta get you into some decent beer!
Find me on Instagram @pry4sno

|| 2010 Golf Sportwagen TDI /// Farmenwagen
|| 1992 80 quattro 20v /// Eventual AAN'd Winter Sled
|| 1990 Coupe quattro /// Because Racecar

|| Spare parts for sale
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Re: The 20vt Quantum Syncro Wagon - The Group B Grocery Gett

Postby the german » Tue Feb 20, 2018 3:11 pm

PRY4SNO wrote:
At any rate... we gotta get you into some decent beer!


:rofl: :rofl: :lol:
Kirk

1990 ABZ CQ
1990 lifted CQ
2005 S4 6MT
2011 A4 2.0T Avant (ok, it's my wife's car but it's sexy and I love it)
the german
 
Posts: 660
Joined: Feb 15, 2014
Location: Bellevue, WA

Re: The 20vt Quantum Syncro Wagon - The Group B Grocery Gett

Postby dougkehl » Tue Feb 20, 2018 4:46 pm

PRY4SNO wrote:I recall reading about the small port AMB being better due to velocity compared to the bigger AEB heads. Pretty sure it was from testing by Aaron on his Cq drag car?

At any rate... we gotta get you into some decent beer!


Hey don't knock Foster's mate! It ain't the best, but sure ain't the worst! Here's proof I drink more than PBR and Foster's :lol: :beer:

ImageIMG_9247 by dougkehl1, on Flickr


And on a serious note I can totally see the small port being better for that reason. The big port is huge, and these runners have a real nice taper as they approach the port which will really speed the air up as it travels down these long runners.
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Re: The 20vt Quantum Syncro Wagon - The Group B Grocery Gett

Postby dougkehl » Wed Feb 21, 2018 8:54 pm

Got the flange tacked to the runners today. I think it looks pretty good with the throttle bodies in place!

ImageIMG_9248 by dougkehl1, on Flickr
ImageIMG_9252 by dougkehl1, on Flickr
ImageIMG_9254 by dougkehl1, on Flickr
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Re: The 20vt Quantum Syncro Wagon - The Group B Grocery Gett

Postby the german » Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:35 pm

That does look good. Hows it look with the plenum on there?

Also, why put the injectors upstream rather than down by the ports? help cool the charge air?
Kirk

1990 ABZ CQ
1990 lifted CQ
2005 S4 6MT
2011 A4 2.0T Avant (ok, it's my wife's car but it's sexy and I love it)
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Re: The 20vt Quantum Syncro Wagon - The Group B Grocery Gett

Postby dougkehl » Thu Feb 22, 2018 7:26 am

It looks good with the plenum on there. I would have taken some pictures of it on there, but I don't have any nuts to tighten the throttle bodies down right now so it was pretty sketchy trying to keep it on there. once I get nuts for the throttle bodies I'll get some pictures of the plenum. Although I think there will be a height problem.. I'm worried the plenum wont clear the hood so I'm going to hold off welding the whole thing to until I can dump the engine in the car. I'd rather cut a few tacks and modify if I need to than cut full welds.

As for the injector placement, right now were the injectors are should provide good atomization at higher rpms due to the extra distance which gives the fuel and air more time to mix. But this is really my first stab at a forced induction engine and I'm not entirely sure how critical it is like in a high strung naturally aspirated engine where the higher the operating range of the engine is the more you benefit from increasing the distance from the injector to the intake valves. I would think the same principle applies, but I could be wrong. I do suppose that cooling of the charge would be a side effect as well. At idle I feel they are a bit far. I have a set of aluminum injector ports from ross machine racing that I may put in closer to the ports so I can experiment with the injector placement and see if one placement works better than another, especially at a given rpm.
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Re: The 20vt Quantum Syncro Wagon - The Group B Grocery Gett

Postby dougkehl » Wed Feb 28, 2018 7:45 am

Here are some pictures with the plenum on! It's a little long, but like I said I will wait until I have this thing into the car before I go welding it completely together so I'm not kicking myself if I need to change it. I'm also going to cut the silicon connectors down about 1.25" to shorten it up a little bit.

ImageIMG_9257 by dougkehl1, on Flickr
ImageIMG_9258 by dougkehl1, on Flickr
ImageIMG_9259 by dougkehl1, on Flickr
ImageIMG_9260 by dougkehl1, on Flickr
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Re: The 20vt Quantum Syncro Wagon - The Group B Grocery Gett

Postby PRY4SNO » Wed Feb 28, 2018 9:29 pm

I see zero issues with fitment, so long as you're using a front rad. ;)

Looks impressive sitting on the head, can't wait to see it massaged into the QSW!
Find me on Instagram @pry4sno

|| 2010 Golf Sportwagen TDI /// Farmenwagen
|| 1992 80 quattro 20v /// Eventual AAN'd Winter Sled
|| 1990 Coupe quattro /// Because Racecar

|| Spare parts for sale
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Re: The 20vt Quantum Syncro Wagon - The Group B Grocery Gett

Postby dougkehl » Thu Mar 01, 2018 8:09 am

PRY4SNO wrote:I see zero issues with fitment, so long as you're using a front rad. ;)


Thanks man! And yep, front rad is the plan! I'm going to shorten the driveshaft or get a custom single piece one made and then make new engine and transmission mounts to shove the engine back 2-3" so I can fit a radiator and intercooler up front without having to cut the front of the car off.

I'm longing for the day it can get dropped into the engine bay.
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