Building a Garage

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Building a Garage

Postby grillage » Sun Oct 26, 2014 6:32 am

I've been going back and forth on whether to move to a house with a garage or build one. I love my house and the property I'm on, plus I've done a ton of work to the place so I'd be starting over on kitchens etc. Lastly, I appear to have very expensive taste in houses so anything I want to buy is about double the price of my current house. The other thing is that if I built a garage I could relocate my workshop and parts horde into it and be able to redo the basement. Thus moving my children and all their crap downstairs and out of my living room.

I have a large driveway now, a pad large enough to fit 4 cars side by side. So I'm thinking I would build a 3 car garage with workshop would fit. I could easily do about 40 feet wide and 25-30 feet deep depending on some variables

For those of you who have done this, how did you? did you find plans online? Did you do some yourself? (I rehabbed an entire house myself so I can do just about everything except pour concrete).

Please send me your advise!
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Re: Building a Garage

Postby grillage » Sun Oct 26, 2014 7:12 am

Driveway:
Image
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Re: Building a Garage

Postby speeding-g60 » Sun Oct 26, 2014 7:29 am

when i was planning my move, i was expecting to build a shop as houses WITH shops were not very abundant. and my plan was to build a pole-barn and make it my shop.

i ended up with a house with a pole barn shop already, and this is how things are going with it. cleared it out first, and am still in the process of making it my own. mine came 24x48, but if i were to have done it from the jump i would have gone at least 30 deep on this length. and taller headroom as well. but, i was able to move everything right in soooo. is what it is today. i will expand it later. i thought 24x48 would be perfect, but its filled up now and i already want more space!

i had thoughts originally about building a larger shop eventually but i think adding on to mine now out the back is the easiest. that is a long ways off yet.

some of the things to look into are required distances between house and shop, easements, property lines, etc. i doubt the driveway is sturdy enough to be used as a foundation for a garage built on it. you would most likely need to dig it up and add thickness to it, piers for the posts, grade beams (connectors for the piers), etc.

i sent you the link in PM, as MG panties are still wadded up and a PP link gets changed into a MG link.
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Re: Building a Garage

Postby speeding-g60 » Sun Oct 26, 2014 7:32 am

well, that didnt work either. sent you a PM over there.
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Re: Building a Garage

Postby grillage » Sun Oct 26, 2014 8:50 am

Got it! Thanks. I've been following this thread closely with a lot of jealousy.
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Re: Building a Garage

Postby Aardvark Spleen » Sun Oct 26, 2014 9:16 am

If you build one, there's a pretty neat forum over here for ideas.

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/

I've scored some decent deals on tools in their FS section as well.
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Re: Building a Garage

Postby speeding-g60 » Sun Oct 26, 2014 9:38 am

yep. and jealousy is a negative word. i prefer envy. you will have what you want eventually, and it will be just the way you like it.

but one last bit of advice. determine what you WANT for space, then add at least 15-20%. because what you THINK will suffice usually doesnt after a bit of time and you get stuff all put how you want it.

:)
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Re: Building a Garage

Postby wilke_jb » Sun Oct 26, 2014 11:20 am

When i built my house i went ahead and built my garage too with the option to add an apartment up top. I ran all the utilities to it and made the trusses to carry the load. Its 26 x 26 on the inside and i, like others wish it were wider ( maybe 36?) The ceilings are tall enough for a lift and the floor is perfectly level. Anyway it was a decision i dont regret eventhough it cost me a ton extra money!.
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Re: Building a Garage

Postby Wizard-of-OD » Sun Oct 26, 2014 2:31 pm

grillage wrote:Please send me your advise!

This is my opinion (naysayers read this carefully) and I am sure others are going to disagree with me when I post this but I use the "don't eat where you shit" philosophy. From a social stand point and I am sure your significant other would agree you don't want to have a big garage lingering in your back yard for 2 reasons:
1. Your neighbors - you would be surprised how annoying they can be if you are wrenching on your OWN vehicle @ 0200.
2. Your family - whether you want to admit this or not , they will be a distraction and sometimes a detour-ant for getting into the garage.

If you are comfortable with your home currently then stay there. From your picture you have 3 cars , a B8 A5 and 2 projects (correct me if I am wrong on this unless the cabriolet is not a project)

Some people are going to say that if you have the land then build your dream garage next to your house and that is a good idea as well except for the 2 points raised above. If you are fine with those 2 points then go forward with a 40 x 30 unit.

Based on your post with respect to expensive taste then more than likely you are not going to want to do a half assed job and being in Ohio would mean the garage will have to have some form of thermal barrier / insulation to keep it comfortable in the winter.
A 1200 sqft shop w/wooden mezzanine will run you about $55,000-$60,000 with all the electrical , plumbing , concrete , roofing ,insulation etc. A number based on personal experience for a 30'x40' building with 16' ceiling. This is using 18g steel studs for the perimeter and spray insulation. That was a few years ago so expect inflation and material cost to change as well. Of course you could use wood as well but that concrete pad with the hoist no matter what you use for the perimeter will run you $15K easy.

If it was me , I would search around the area for a 1000-1500 sqft commercial condo for sale. You would be surprised at the entry level price and most if not all by code have the required concrete footing for a above ground hoist anchors as well as necessary drains for washing parts/your cars. About 6 years ago when I really started piling up on the used parts and cars it really put a blow in the house shopping scenario. I am on garage journal and when I saw the ideas people were putting forward , I made up my mind that I was going to have a 40 x 40 building that could house (2) 4 post storage lifts and (1) 2 post lift to work on the cars. When we wanted a lot big enough to buy , the prices were insane and the ones that were not were a 45 minute commute into and out of the city. In the end I settled on the commercial condominium in an industrial park that had relatively low condo fees. It houses all the project cars and the parts independent of my life/business. When I want to go work on my own stuff , I simply go uninterrupted.
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Re: Building a Garage

Postby ursmkd » Sun Oct 26, 2014 7:27 pm

I found out that it is cheaper to rent than buy or build. I am leasing a 3000sqf are in an old mill for $500/mo with electricity included. I have room for about 20 cars outside and tons of 3 phase power inside. I did my math and when factoring building materials,labor,permits,fees,taxes,neighbors etc, I quickly gave up on the idea of building.
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Re: Building a Garage

Postby varia » Sun Oct 26, 2014 7:40 pm

If Ben could have a nice family life with his projects on the drive way, a nice garage will only make it better
He adds value to his home with the garage (shop) while renting is... giving money to somebody else.
And its not his main business profile, like you or Issam

Go for it Ben if you have the founds for it, you are investing
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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Re: Building a Garage

Postby wilke_jb » Sun Oct 26, 2014 7:50 pm

Every situation is different. I live in a quiet neighborhood, plus my garage is 30ft from the house and my daughters bedroom. I purposely made the garage out of brick and used an insulated garage door. I have never in 4 years woke my daughter up or had the neighbors upset with many nights of 2 am escapades. Again every situation is different and i realized that if i had to drive even 10 minutes away i would not be happy at all. I can go out for an hour if i want put the kids to bed and go back out. Works great for me. I havent insulated it, but a torpedo heater works great! I figure i have about 20 to 25 k in mine (26 x 26, high ceilings, trusses, 3 sides brick, 12/12 pitch roof, 2x6 walls, 7 windows, 2 doors, one 8x16 garage door). Hope this helps.
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Re: Building a Garage

Postby mjlangley » Mon Oct 27, 2014 5:17 am

I was recently where you are...

Stay in our house in a nice sub (w/ rules, so no outbuildings and generic attached 2.x car garage) and find somewhere to keep / work on cars or move. I was not thrilled with the idea of having all of my stuff somewhere else.

We got really lucky and found a place with a 40x60 building on the property, best thing we ever did. I was able to move out of my storage unit and get all of my car stuff into the building.

My $0.02 is to build a shop if you can. And I agree with the above- go bigger than you think you'll need!
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Re: Building a Garage

Postby ursmkd » Mon Oct 27, 2014 5:42 am

True, every situation is different. I choose to rent because it is CHEAPER either way I put it. My real business needs me to have industrial space and power and my wrenching on cars hobby is benefiting from it.
Making poor decisions based on facts like " renting is giving away money to somebody else" is the difference from a good or bad entrepreneur.
There are many unknown factors involved when building a 40x30 garage /shop on your personal (residential) property.How long will it take you? How much? Are your neighbors cool with that? Are your FUTURE neighbors cool and cool with that? And so on.
You could dish out $50k building a nice garage. Depending on your location your home might or might not go that much in value. You might even out but that is it.

Good luck anyway you choose and remember: In the end is all about how bad you need it not how bad you want it. I know many people that made bad decisions based on feelings, myself included.
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Re: Building a Garage

Postby Wizard-of-OD » Mon Oct 27, 2014 6:38 am

varia wrote:He adds value to his home with the garage (shop) while renting is... giving money to somebody else.

if his home was worth $400,000 now , adding a 1200 sqft garage base next to a 1500 sqft base home is going to bring up the value half of what he invested into the garage.
Ask any realator and they will tell you a detached Garage does not bring up the value of property like one would think. Landscaping and a pool do wonders in comparison.
Of course that only applies to non enthusiast (like us) which represent 99% of the people out there.

As for "renting is giving somebody else money"
That statement is only true if the financials don't add up.
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Re: Building a Garage

Postby varia » Mon Oct 27, 2014 7:06 am

Wizard-of-OD wrote:
varia wrote:He adds value to his home with the garage (shop) while renting is... giving money to somebody else.

if his home was worth $400,000 now , adding a 1200 sqft garage base next to a 1500 sqft base home is going to bring up the value half of what he invested into the garage.
Ask any realator and they will tell you a detached Garage does not bring up the value of property like one would think. Landscaping and a pool do wonders in comparison.
Of course that only applies to non enthusiast (like us) which represent 99% of the people out there.

As for "renting is giving somebody else money"
That statement is only true if the financials don't add up.


One more time, its his hobby not his business.

You generate money with your business so you can afford to rent and pay utility
While its his hobby, makes no income with it, ie it would take money away monthly from his "family packet"

If he could rent something similar size -for the garage he would build- for lets just way $600 (not where i live) thats $36K in 5 years out of the window, from his pocket
If he builds something for the same amount, he will have after 5 years, and added value for his home, made money with hit, with his hobby. worst case he makes it even, but wont give $35K money to somebody else
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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Re: Building a Garage

Postby Wizard-of-OD » Mon Oct 27, 2014 8:03 am

varia wrote: and pay utility

Which he is going to have to pay anyway and in some areas residential hydro rates are more than commercial. A quick phone call to your local Hydro company can put you in the right direction.
varia wrote:If he could rent something similar size -for the garage he would build- for lets just way $600 (not where i live) thats $36K in 5 years out of the window, from his pocket

You see it as 36K out of his pocket , I see it as investment planning....
This is not about hobby vs business. Where I do my personal work is nowhere near where my business is run out of.
Not sure where I posted anything about renting but I will address your point.The flip side to renting a place instead of building on his property is:
1. His property tax does not go up
2. He does not absorb the condo fees (since he is not the owner)
3. In the 5 years using your scenario , he would have taken the money he saved from not building a garage in his back yard and invested it elsewhere turning a decent ROI .
4. He does not have to absorb the cost that the next homeowner will not appreciate , such as running a separate electrical panel (which by code he will need) and which by default come standard in any commercial unit.

As mentioned above , if his financial situation allows for it , go shopping for a commercial condominium and rent it from yourself. If after 5 years you don't want it, then sell it , take the profit and move on.

I am not saying building in his back yard is a bad idea. I am saying plan this out properly and if the numbers make sense then go for it.
- Speak to a realtor
- Call your local land tax department and find out what the implications of adding a 1200 sqft garage to the back of your house does to your land taxes (more than likely they will reappraise the property or look for comps)
- Sit down and work out your financials.
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Re: Building a Garage

Postby jaesunel » Mon Oct 27, 2014 8:13 am

I'm in the process of building a garage right now... 2 car with 6' extra width built in for work area. second story above, unfinished at the moment. Foundation requires more excavation than most garages (will retain 36" of soil on the rear side. I'm an Architect, did the plans myself, and will probably end up spending about 30K to get it done acting as my own general contractor. If you need help drawing something up, I might be able to help you. :wink:
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Re: Building a Garage

Postby grillage » Mon Oct 27, 2014 1:34 pm

Wow!

thanks to everyone for your opinions and advice.

A couple things...

I have thought about renting in the past but the fact is that the time I get to work on the car(s) is in bits and pieces - frequently while I am alone with my kids who are 4 and 6. What tends to happen is that Saturday and Sunday my wife wants to get the hell out of the house and away from our kids who she spends all day with and I am left in charge while she does whatever she does. They play on the swings or mess around in the woods or watch TV while I work on the car. I wouldn't be able to do any of that if the car and tools were "off campus" so to speak.

Also, she really wants a garage for her car too. We actually have 4 cars - she was out when I took the pic the other day. My B8 A5, the coupe V8 project, the Cabriolet and her 2014 Buick Enclave (insert old person joke here). I would end up with one car outside even with a 3 car garage. Hell - we had 5 cars briefly before I sold the S6 and scrapped the V8.

As to the property, I am pretty lucky where I am. I live within the City of Cincinnati but have 2+ acres and am at the end of a dead end street. the only neighbors I really can see are behind me and no one ever drives past the house. You actually can't see it from the street so no one would really know I'm there.

I'm in the white box in the photo below (you can see my B4 90 in the driveway)...
Image

Plus I just built a killer deck between the house and the pool this summer...
Image

I looked at a house yesterday with a 4 car garage - it was super cool but double what I paid for my current house and had a huge water leak and mold in the - wait for it - basement raquetball court. Weirdest home improvement ever. These people built their house with a 2 story underground racquetball court.

I think for now I'm going to go forward with the idea of building where I am. I would love to incorporate some sort of living space or office space above but with a ranch house it might be a weird combination.

Again, THANKS for your insight. I'll keep everyone posted. I will most definitely go as big as makes sense. I've even thought of of going big steel building where the trees are NE of the house - that's all mine and could hold another house if I wanted to. The issue there is the creek that runs between it and the driveway. I'd have to build a road over it.
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Re: Building a Garage

Postby Wizard-of-OD » Mon Oct 27, 2014 2:26 pm

grillage wrote:I've even thought of of going big steel building where the trees are NE of the house - that's all mine and could hold another house if I wanted to. The issue there is the creek that runs between it and the driveway. I'd have to build a road over it.

That settles it then. Looking forward to seeing your build.
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Re: Building a Garage

Postby speeding-g60 » Mon Oct 27, 2014 5:00 pm

DO IT! and build up if you can. a 14' eave will give you PLENTY of room to have a very goodly sized loft over some of the floor space, putting all that is slated as "storage" off and out of the main sq footage of the primary floor. more room for CARS!

40x30 would be GREAT! that extra 6' on top of the 24 (+6) x 48 i have would make a tremendous difference in my space, as well as something higher than 9-1/2 -ish foot eaves.
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Re: Building a Garage

Postby NiTeC » Tue Oct 28, 2014 6:54 am

Yeah I was in the same boat about 3 months ago...

my fiance at the time was sick and tired with me disappearing every weekend to go wrench at my parents place (about a 30min drive) and I was sick and tired of living in a condo and not having any space to play with...

the garage/space situation was #1 on my list - you can renovate and build whatever you want but if your neighbour is 12" from your outside wall you've got a problem...we ended up with a 1acre lot about 10 min from downtown Ottawa with a house with a 2 car attached garage...I spent 2 months making it project friendly including all new electrica, 60Gal compressor, proper workbench and massive amounts of light...I just finished yesterday and brought the projects in ready for the winter...

I looked around for condo space or even rental space...95% of the commercial space available said absolutely NO CAR work anywhere around the space...I was either looking at buying a working shop or being way out of the city - not saying there weren't good spots but I was already driving 40 min to my parents...certainly didn't want to drive 1hr AND pay for using the space...

having work space at your house is priceless...I can work in the shop at 6am on a Saturday morning and drink coffee with my wife at 9 when she gets up...when the kids arrive eventually it will be even harder to take time to drive to a different location and be away from the family...
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Re: Building a Garage

Postby speeding-g60 » Tue Oct 28, 2014 9:23 am

yeah i didnt mention the proximity to home. if i dont want to do anything out in the shop i just dont go out there. if i even had to drive 5 minutes away it would be inconvenient.

and one other thing i forgot to mention about height: i dont know your area but take into consideration heating a taller ceiling space if it gets cold there. may want a ceiling fan or three to help distribute air if so.
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Re: Building a Garage

Postby splattj » Wed Oct 29, 2014 4:08 am

So, this will probably ruin many of you for life, but check out the Garage Journal Forums
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/
You can see some pretty awesome garage builds. I've gotten some win-the-lotto dream ideas from that site.... sigh.
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Re: Building a Garage

Postby grillage » Sat Nov 28, 2015 9:10 pm

Bringing this back from the dead. I have drawings now for a 3 car garage and will be getting pricing this winter for a Spring build.

For those of you who've done this before, what sort of power did you run to the garage?

I assume a welder and a bunch of convenience outlets with maybe a compressor. No room for a lift unfortunately.

100 amps should be good right?
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