new 10vtq build

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new 10vtq build

Postby JRH » Mon Feb 26, 2018 2:04 pm

Picked up a 1990 Audi 200 10VTq.

Doesn't start, trying to figure it out. I got the bentley manual's that I'm reading though.

As far as I can tell (based on pictures) it is a 10V MC motor?

Image

Image

Floors were soaking wet, not sure why. I'm currently in the process of drying them out. Wet vacc'd them, have a fan for circulation, and have been using baking soda that I read online that can help

Image
JRH
 
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Re: new 10vtq build

Postby DE80q » Mon Feb 26, 2018 2:08 pm

In 1990, there is a split between MC1 and MC2. Look at the side of the engine, and see if there is 1 or 2 knock sensors. If it's 2, then you have an MC2, which has slightly higher compression, better cam, and K24 turbo. It's also possible it will have a 2 piece manifold.
"If you can't find one, make one"

Dallastown, PA
1991 Audi 80 quattro (10vt project)
2007 Mitsubishi Raider(Dakota in disguise)
2014 Chevy traverse (It's what she wanted)
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Re: new 10vtq build

Postby JRH » Mon Feb 26, 2018 7:04 pm

Just checked - it's a 2 knock sensor motor. Anything different I should know about?
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Re: new 10vtq build

Postby JRH » Mon Feb 26, 2018 7:23 pm

oh, ha, just read your post again. I guess those are the differences.

I got a S&G kit to test the K-jetronic CIS stuff to look into why it doesn't start.

I think it has a MAC-14 ECU.

I did a output test - fuel pump turns on, freq valve clicks, wastegate clicks, carbon canister clicks, but cold start valve has no click. I'm thinking that's where I start.
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new 10vtq build

Postby Afterthought » Mon Feb 26, 2018 8:46 pm

I’m not sure if this would help but it’s fairly quick to jumper power to the cold start valve . If that was your issue you should have a start but then you’d still have to dig in to why it’s not working .
The two wires I touch together every time I fire up my 80 do exactly that . Just takes about a one second squirt and no matter what I do will not start without it .

A 10V CIS can be impossible to start with a vacuum leak . I purchased an 85$ smoke tester on eBay and it has come in handy . Uses baby oil . You could put something together to use compressed air and soapy water . Finding a leak could help.
Also of course checking fuses and relays . Have you looked at SJM autotechnik ? Their site has some good troubleshooting info and other useful stuff for MC engines .

http://www.sjmautotechnik.com/trouble_s ... start.html

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Afterthought

1983 UrQuattro - http://theprojectpad.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1819&p=72513#p72513
1983 Ur Quattro Amazon Blue / Zebra MC
GMC 2500HD
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Re: new 10vtq build

Postby JRH » Tue Feb 27, 2018 10:54 pm

Thanks I'm going to try working on it this weekend. Any particular areas that I should look for vacuum leaks other than, well, all the rubber parts/tubes?
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Re: new 10vtq build

Postby Afterthought » Fri Mar 02, 2018 10:15 pm

JRH wrote:Thanks I'm going to try working on it this weekend. Any particular areas that I should look for vacuum leaks other than, well, all the rubber parts/tubes?

Those cloth lines , sometimes the cloth looks ok but its weak underneath.
Any rubber hose that has a clamp if someone tightens the clamp too tight can tear the hose. There is a big vac line at the valve cover, some lines one going to the wastegate frequency valve, to the igloo, and I think maybe one going to the warmup regulator on the block, one goes to the ECU, charcoal canister.

I would take a good check over everything.
http://www.motorgeek.com/viewtopic.php? ... ead#unread
****
Afterthought

1983 UrQuattro - http://theprojectpad.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1819&p=72513#p72513
1983 Ur Quattro Amazon Blue / Zebra MC
GMC 2500HD
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Re: new 10vtq build

Postby JRH » Sat Mar 03, 2018 4:34 pm

Thanks. Found a leak in the PCV system - a 3 way rubber tube had a tear in it. I just plugged the crankcase vent system where it attaches to the intake manifold to disconnect it from the system. Also, weather is in the 40's today - up from 20's!

Car started right up! That was probably a vacuum leak, and also maybe the cold start valve isn't working. I'll try to unhook it and see if it will spray separately.

In the mean time, do you know where I can get that 3 way rubber connector that connects from the valvecover? It's the center portion of the photo:

Image
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Re: new 10vtq build

Postby DE80q » Sat Mar 03, 2018 10:03 pm

034 still sells the silicone one. I have it's n mine, and it's pretty nice.
https://store.034motorsport.com/silicon ... cover.html
If you can, get the one that connects to the block as well.
https://store.034motorsport.com/silicon ... inder.html

If you just want a rubber replacement, you can get this...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/370820127676

There is also an OEM block hose on eBay, but it's more expensive that the 034 upgrade...

Also, if the cold start injector isn't working, I have a couple of them I can send you. I'll just have to find them... Not sure where they are due to the move.
"If you can't find one, make one"

Dallastown, PA
1991 Audi 80 quattro (10vt project)
2007 Mitsubishi Raider(Dakota in disguise)
2014 Chevy traverse (It's what she wanted)
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Re: new 10vtq build

Postby JRH » Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:01 am

awesome, thanks, i'll send you a message
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Re: new 10vtq build

Postby JRH » Wed Mar 07, 2018 9:43 am

Well it's cold out again and it's hard to start. DE80q - if you do find that cold start injector let me know!

When I did get it started on that warm (40F) day, seemed like the idle was jumping up and down. I took a video of it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLe8cduMfIk

anyone have any insight?

I did also get an S&G gauge kit - it seemed like the control pressure and fuel pressure were within spec (compared to the bentley manual). Wonder what could cause a change in idle then - maybe more vaccum leak stuff?
JRH
 
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Re: new 10vtq build

Postby JRH » Mon Mar 19, 2018 3:35 pm

Well I took the old cold start valve off and tested it with the output test - looks like it works. But, not sure if the spray is normal/enough/etc.

Took a video of it -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqgW0i7sh04

Can anyone tell me if this is normal operation? Starts at 22 seconds in
JRH
 
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Re: new 10vtq build

Postby DE80q » Mon Mar 19, 2018 3:46 pm

That looks about right. Looks to be a pretty fine mist with a wide pattern.
"If you can't find one, make one"

Dallastown, PA
1991 Audi 80 quattro (10vt project)
2007 Mitsubishi Raider(Dakota in disguise)
2014 Chevy traverse (It's what she wanted)
DE80q
 
Posts: 2219
Joined: Mar 4, 2013
Location: York PA 17403

Re: new 10vtq build

Postby JRH » Mon Mar 19, 2018 4:56 pm

Thanks. I put it back on. The variable idle I traced back to the CIS frequency valve (K-lambda). When it turned off the idle would rise. I unplugged it and the idle is steady ~800-900. Maybe something with the O2 sensor isn't right.

I already checked the fuel pressure is good, and it keeps pressure when shut off.

Checked the spark next with a timing light - strangely it looks like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKRqsiD_SKc

I expected it to be steady. I don't get it?
JRH
 
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Location: East

Re: new 10vtq build

Postby GTJeff » Tue Mar 20, 2018 4:37 pm

You may be able to cure the variable idle by adjusting the idle mixture. To do it correctly requires adjusting the idle mixture and the idle air screws simultaneously and requires a dwell meter and a digital multimeter.
http://www.sjmautotechnik.com/trouble_shooting/injector.html#mixture

You may need to shave down the insulation on your No. 1 plug wire for the timing light to work reliably.

Leaky injectors with crappy spray patterns will cause all kinds of cold and hot start problems.
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Re: new 10vtq build

Postby my2000apb » Thu Mar 22, 2018 12:52 am

i have that silicone Tee piece, you can have it for shipping if you still need it LMK via PM
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Re: new 10vtq build

Postby JRH » Thu Mar 22, 2018 12:54 pm

Thanks! PM sent

THe variable idle was solved by unplugging the CIS frequency valve. It would be ticking, turn off for a few sec, then start ticking again. Not sure why- maybe something with the ECU/lamba O2 sensor? Either way, for better or worse it is idling steady now. Probably not as fuel-efficient, but whatever.

still doesn't like to start when cold. I need to try jumping the cold start injector to see if that is the problem. The spray is adequate according to a reply here - so maybe it is something along the lines of it not being activated by the ECU? I think it is in line with the thermotime switch and I need to check that also.
JRH
 
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