Chris' 200 20v Sedan - The Revver

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Re: Chris' 200 20v Sedan - The Revver - Turbo Found

Postby loxxrider » Fri Feb 12, 2016 4:12 pm

All the better to suck small children in with!
-Chris

'91 Audi 200 20v - Revver/BAT project
'91 Audi 200 20v Avant
'01 Anthracite M5
'90 M3
'85 Euro 635csi
'12 X3
E34 530i (maybe rear-mount soon)
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Re: Chris' 200 20v Sedan - The Revver - Turbo Found

Postby dana » Fri Feb 12, 2016 4:14 pm

loxxrider wrote:All the better to suck small children in with!

i would advise against sucking children of any general size.
current:
-mk4 tdi wagon with some mods
-TDI b3 90q, holset turbo, be strong little connecting rods!
-the turbo tractor
past:
-11 second 90q junker
-20vt swapped 90q winter beater
-efi 10vt 4kq
-way too many other long gone urs's, 200's 4000's, b5's
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Re: Chris' 200 20v Sedan - The Revver - Turbo Found

Postby loxxrider » Fri Feb 12, 2016 4:18 pm

Dammit, I knew that was coming hahaha
-Chris

'91 Audi 200 20v - Revver/BAT project
'91 Audi 200 20v Avant
'01 Anthracite M5
'90 M3
'85 Euro 635csi
'12 X3
E34 530i (maybe rear-mount soon)
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Re: Chris' 200 20v Sedan - The Revver - Turbo Found

Postby dana » Fri Feb 12, 2016 4:21 pm

hah, sorry, obviously i have zero self control.
current:
-mk4 tdi wagon with some mods
-TDI b3 90q, holset turbo, be strong little connecting rods!
-the turbo tractor
past:
-11 second 90q junker
-20vt swapped 90q winter beater
-efi 10vt 4kq
-way too many other long gone urs's, 200's 4000's, b5's
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Re: Chris' 200 20v Sedan - The Revver - Turbo Found

Postby Hank » Fri Feb 12, 2016 6:02 pm

Still not available quite yet, but I have dibs on one of the first out of hte factory Chris.
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Re: Chris' 200 20v Sedan - The Revver - Turbo Found

Postby loxxrider » Fri Feb 12, 2016 6:46 pm

Thanks Hank. You want to try one out too? I'm not in a real hurry because the engine is far from complete, and I think it should still be the last thing to be purchased, but I'm excited to have this option.

On a different topic, I'm still scared about running a fluidampr. I've been told it'll be fine, but I've also been told I'd be an idiot to run one by others, even with a nice crank. Those vibrations have to go somewhere and instead of them being absorbed by movement of the crank and in fact, sort of damped in this way, now other components will see these stresses.
-Chris

'91 Audi 200 20v - Revver/BAT project
'91 Audi 200 20v Avant
'01 Anthracite M5
'90 M3
'85 Euro 635csi
'12 X3
E34 530i (maybe rear-mount soon)
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Re: Chris' 200 20v Sedan - The Revver - Turbo Found

Postby PRY4SNO » Fri Feb 12, 2016 9:21 pm

Jeff did fine revving high with an ATI... a properly built Fluidampr should be fine. No?
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|| 2010 Golf Sportwagen TDI /// Farmenwagen
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Re: Chris' 200 20v Sedan - The Revver - Turbo Found

Postby themagellan » Fri Feb 12, 2016 10:30 pm

It looks amazing I hope you build this soon!


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Re: Chris' 200 20v Sedan - The Revver - Turbo Found

Postby loxxrider » Fri Feb 12, 2016 10:36 pm

Yes because an ATI damper is a proper solution to the problem. Fluidamprs are not tuned to a specific frequency and thus are not as effective at damping vibrations where they are at their worst. It's like having a mill/lathe combo. The mill portion will never be as good as a dedicated mill.

Fluidampr has requested more information to determine if the damper will be of use or not so even they are not confident in a more universal solution (fluidampr) working for an extreme application like this.
-Chris

'91 Audi 200 20v - Revver/BAT project
'91 Audi 200 20v Avant
'01 Anthracite M5
'90 M3
'85 Euro 635csi
'12 X3
E34 530i (maybe rear-mount soon)
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Re: Chris' 200 20v Sedan - The Revver - Turbo Found

Postby PRY4SNO » Sat Feb 13, 2016 11:11 am

loxxrider wrote:Yes because an ATI damper is a proper solution to the problem. Fluidamprs are not tuned to a specific frequency and thus are not as effective at damping vibrations where they are at their worst. It's like having a mill/lathe combo. The mill portion will never be as good as a dedicated mill.

Fluidampr has requested more information to determine if the damper will be of use or not so even they are not confident in a more universal solution (fluidampr) working for an extreme application like this.


Solid info, thanks!
Find me on Instagram @pry4sno

|| 2010 Golf Sportwagen TDI /// Farmenwagen
|| 1992 80 quattro 20v /// Eventual AAN'd Winter Sled
|| 1990 Coupe quattro /// Because Racecar

|| Spare parts for sale
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Re: Chris' 200 20v Sedan - The Revver - Turbo Found

Postby mushasho » Wed Feb 17, 2016 7:45 pm

Awesome that they answered your wishes Chris...

I just hate their sometimes confusing/vague naming at times on the none EFR stuff... Here they seem to have a readily available AirWerks S400SX-E 72mm , but clearly the picture of the one you posted is different... guess we'll have to see how they label that one.
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Re: Chris' 200 20v Sedan - The Revver - Turbo Found

Postby loxxrider » Wed Feb 17, 2016 9:24 pm

That picture I showed might be of the 88mm, but the one on the jegs site is probably of the old 72. The new one is supposed to have a 10 full blade compressor wheel.
-Chris

'91 Audi 200 20v - Revver/BAT project
'91 Audi 200 20v Avant
'01 Anthracite M5
'90 M3
'85 Euro 635csi
'12 X3
E34 530i (maybe rear-mount soon)
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Re: Chris' 200 20v Sedan - The Revver - Turbo Found

Postby loxxrider » Fri Feb 19, 2016 10:23 pm

The block has shipped! Thanks Hank.

Apparently this thing weighs 50lbs more than an 07k. Ouch! Hopefully that means its stronger :)
-Chris

'91 Audi 200 20v - Revver/BAT project
'91 Audi 200 20v Avant
'01 Anthracite M5
'90 M3
'85 Euro 635csi
'12 X3
E34 530i (maybe rear-mount soon)
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Re: Chris' 200 20v Sedan - The Revver - Turbo Found

Postby chaloux » Sat Feb 20, 2016 12:28 am

:o :D :twisted:
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Re: Chris' 200 20v Sedan - The Revver - Turbo Found

Postby 85oceanic » Sat Feb 20, 2016 3:09 am

Man that's a monster turbo. :D
-Ben-
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Re: Chris' 200 20v Sedan - The Revver - Turbo Found

Postby PRY4SNO » Sat Feb 20, 2016 12:32 pm

What kind of block was it again? AEL or AAT maybe?
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|| 1990 Coupe quattro /// Because Racecar

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Re: Chris' 200 20v Sedan - The Revver - Turbo Found

Postby loxxrider » Thu Mar 03, 2016 8:15 pm

I honestly don't know what the code is.

But here are some pictures finally.

Here's the block just after arriving at Jeff's

revver block at jeffs.jpg
revver block at jeffs.jpg (65.47 KiB) Viewed 14335 times


Before clean-up

revver block clean up.jpg
revver block clean up.jpg (86.01 KiB) Viewed 14335 times


Disassembly

revver disassembly.jpg
revver disassembly.jpg (187.3 KiB) Viewed 14335 times
-Chris

'91 Audi 200 20v - Revver/BAT project
'91 Audi 200 20v Avant
'01 Anthracite M5
'90 M3
'85 Euro 635csi
'12 X3
E34 530i (maybe rear-mount soon)
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Re: Chris' 200 20v Sedan - The Revver - Turbo Found

Postby loxxrider » Thu Mar 03, 2016 8:20 pm

Something bad happened to that piston lol ^^^^


I've been talking to someone about making custom main caps for me which don't require line boring, only line honing. The reason is because the cost for line boring is significant. Having caps made with reference to the stock caps and measurements from the block they go in may offset that cost. The other option is to treat the stock caps, but I'm not very keen on that idea compared to a beefier cap made from a high performance alloy.

revver main cap design.jpg
revver main cap design.jpg (12.15 KiB) Viewed 14333 times


revver main caps 2.jpg
revver main caps 2.jpg (20.4 KiB) Viewed 14333 times


revver main caps.jpg
revver main caps.jpg (27.73 KiB) Viewed 14333 times
-Chris

'91 Audi 200 20v - Revver/BAT project
'91 Audi 200 20v Avant
'01 Anthracite M5
'90 M3
'85 Euro 635csi
'12 X3
E34 530i (maybe rear-mount soon)
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Re: Chris' 200 20v Sedan - The Revver - Turbo Found

Postby Juizer » Fri Mar 04, 2016 5:42 am

I've been thinking of those billet main caps as well lately, but are they any good if one tends to stay under 8000rpm?
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Re: Chris' 200 20v Sedan - The Revver - Turbo Found

Postby loxxrider » Fri Mar 04, 2016 7:47 am

Oh wow! That's crazy, I had no idea.

Juizer, it's not worth it at all for less than 1000hp. Even then, it's debatable. I just like to overbuild in this situation.
-Chris

'91 Audi 200 20v - Revver/BAT project
'91 Audi 200 20v Avant
'01 Anthracite M5
'90 M3
'85 Euro 635csi
'12 X3
E34 530i (maybe rear-mount soon)
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Re: Chris' 200 20v Sedan - The Revver - Turbo Found

Postby loxxrider » Fri Mar 04, 2016 8:10 am

Also, I just realized I never posted the full flow data for this head. From Jeff:




"Valve opening……Stock/Revver Intake……Stock/Revver Exhaust

.050……………………………16/48…………………………13/41

.100……………………………49/89…………………………41/86

.150……………………………85/128………………………66/113

.200……………………………115/166……………………96/134

.250……………………………149/196……………………118/155

.300……………………………171/223……………………128/165

.350……………………………186/244……………………134/184

.400……………………………192/259……………………136/197

.450……………………………198/268……………………137/203

.500……………………………???/274………………………138/203

As you can see the exhaust is mostly done at .400, this is normal.

The really great thing on this head is that it has zero exhaust port turbulence between 250 and 350 lift . Most of these will have turbulence that bounces the manometer so much you cant take an accurate reading at .300.

I even cranked the bench up to 42 inches (from the standard 28) and still no break up of flow within the port! This really important because its right in the middle of valve travel and a point that get passed going both directions.

If you port these exhausts with the 29.5mm valve for the biggest number at full lift they will always have mid lift turbulence.

It will be a great head for supporting flow at hi boost / hi rpm and should hit the turbo a lot harder as well."
-Chris

'91 Audi 200 20v - Revver/BAT project
'91 Audi 200 20v Avant
'01 Anthracite M5
'90 M3
'85 Euro 635csi
'12 X3
E34 530i (maybe rear-mount soon)
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Re: Chris' 200 20v Sedan - The Revver - Turbo Found

Postby loxxrider » Fri Mar 04, 2016 12:23 pm

And because I'm a nerd, here are plots of my head vs stock vs another member here FRCFD5.


Intake Head Flow.JPG
Intake Head Flow.JPG (45 KiB) Viewed 14228 times


Exhaust Head Flow.JPG
Exhaust Head Flow.JPG (44.93 KiB) Viewed 14228 times




Some interesting numbers related to this. Total flow under the curve (not in CFM... I still have to wrap my brain around this lol)


RevverIntakeIntegral = 88.0807


FRCFD5IntakeIntegral = 87.5234


StockIntakeIntegral = 63.1604


RevverExhaustIntegral = 69.1274


FRCFD5ExhaustIntegral = 67.4617


StockExhaustIntegral = 46.8809
-Chris

'91 Audi 200 20v - Revver/BAT project
'91 Audi 200 20v Avant
'01 Anthracite M5
'90 M3
'85 Euro 635csi
'12 X3
E34 530i (maybe rear-mount soon)
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Re: Chris' 200 20v Sedan - The Revver - Turbo Found

Postby loxxrider » Fri Mar 04, 2016 2:45 pm

After thinking about it for bit, I see that the unit for these numbers is [in*ft^3/min] which is rather meaningless, especially when taken out of context. It is best to just use it as an arbitrary number to compare with. The best way to do that would be to compare to stock as a percentage. As a total over the valve lift profile, the revver has an improvement of 140% on the intake side and 148% on the exhaust side.
-Chris

'91 Audi 200 20v - Revver/BAT project
'91 Audi 200 20v Avant
'01 Anthracite M5
'90 M3
'85 Euro 635csi
'12 X3
E34 530i (maybe rear-mount soon)
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Re: Chris' 200 20v Sedan - The Revver

Postby Wheeljack » Fri Mar 04, 2016 3:32 pm

Very nice...some good info there...

As far as the area under the curve, if you have the cam profiles between stock and whatever you're running, plotting the flow versus an engine cycle would tell a much more meaningful story. Increased lift and duration will only add to the improvement shown from the valve lift data and be a little more indicative of actual engine flow.
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