Chris' 200 20v Sedan - The Revver

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Re: Chris' 200 20v Sedan - The Revver

Postby loxxrider » Fri Mar 04, 2016 5:15 pm

Wheeljack wrote:Very nice...some good info there...

As far as the area under the curve, if you have the cam profiles between stock and whatever you're running, plotting the flow versus an engine cycle would tell a much more meaningful story. Increased lift and duration will only add to the improvement shown from the valve lift data and be a little more indicative of actual engine flow.


Indeed! Those numbers would be more meaningful, but only marginally so without making many, many assumptions. Either way, the only real conclusion you can come to is that there is more flow capacity. :geek:
-Chris

'91 Audi 200 20v - Revver/BAT project
'91 Audi 200 20v Avant
'01 Anthracite M5
'90 M3
'85 Euro 635csi
'12 X3
E34 530i (maybe rear-mount soon)
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Re: Chris' 200 20v Sedan - The Revver

Postby chaloux » Sat Mar 05, 2016 8:43 am

I would have thought there'd be more over another member's "standard" port job, but perhaps that speaks to Jeff's standard of work in general.

But the improvement over stock is frikkin awesome.
Matt

01 Allroad 6speed - RS4 clutch, catless downpipes, stuklr tune
04 Jetta TDI - DC stage I clutch/14lb fw
DEATH by rust - 96 Audi A6 Avant 2.5l TDI
GONE :( 87 4ktq - 4 FOX SNAKES
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Re: Chris' 200 20v Sedan - The Revver

Postby loxxrider » Sat Mar 05, 2016 9:11 am

I agree Matt.

I'd love to see more flow data from other heads from around the world as well as from an 07k so I can plot it all.
-Chris

'91 Audi 200 20v - Revver/BAT project
'91 Audi 200 20v Avant
'01 Anthracite M5
'90 M3
'85 Euro 635csi
'12 X3
E34 530i (maybe rear-mount soon)
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Re: Chris' 200 20v Sedan - The Revver

Postby PRY4SNO » Sat Mar 05, 2016 10:17 am

Damn.

I know where I'm sending my head when the time comes.

I already knew, but now I know why! haha
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|| 2010 Golf Sportwagen TDI /// Farmenwagen
|| 1992 80 quattro 20v /// Eventual AAN'd Winter Sled
|| 1990 Coupe quattro /// Because Racecar

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Re: Chris' 200 20v Sedan - The Revver

Postby loxxrider » Sat Mar 05, 2016 12:17 pm

Well, well, well... what do we have here?

Some rudimentary 07k comparison plots. I had to guess at the data points a little bit since those plots from IE are awful. Maybe Issam will be willing to release the real numbers and I can make them a bit smoother. For now, this is what we have. Next up, calculating airflow with the cam profiles available to both types of valve actuation.

Intake Head Flow vs 07K rudimentary numbers.JPG
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Exhaust Head Flow vs 07K rudimentary numbers.JPG
Exhaust Head Flow vs 07K rudimentary numbers.JPG (42.37 KiB) Viewed 11127 times


I have to say, I'm very happy with the low lift flow results here! That will help make up for the fact that we can't run near the duration that an 07k can.
-Chris

'91 Audi 200 20v - Revver/BAT project
'91 Audi 200 20v Avant
'01 Anthracite M5
'90 M3
'85 Euro 635csi
'12 X3
E34 530i (maybe rear-mount soon)
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Re: Chris' 200 20v Sedan - The Revver

Postby PRA4WX » Sat Mar 05, 2016 12:29 pm

Now that's really cool data! Thanks for sharing! 8-)
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Re: Chris' 200 20v Sedan - The Revver

Postby loxxrider » Sun May 29, 2016 7:29 pm

The latest developments with the revver are mostly to do with welding the block up for use with a 20v gasoline head.


Before decking:
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After:
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Semi-interesting discussion:
I think we've also finalized the plan for main caps. They will be made as a one-off set in Finland. The originals will be measured for roundness and diameter while torqued in the block. They will then be sent to the manufacturer for precise measurement via CMM machine. The new caps will then be made from a high end alloy and machined individually to match the original caps' "holes" exactly. This will eliminate an approximately $500 line bore job when installed in the new block. They will only require a line hone. The extra cost added to machining/setup/measurement times is negligible.

One interesting discussion the machinist and I had was related to the honing process. He asked if the engine builder wanted the bores in the caps to be slightly offset toward the bottom of the engine. Apparently some builders have requested this due to the fact that when line boring, the softer material (cast iron) will be removed more quickly than the harder material (the alloy used for the caps) thus making the hole oblong when the caps are torqued and honed. However, a counter point to that thinking is that the surface of the cast iron bearing shell seats is finished to a much higher quality (less surface roughness) than the machined caps will be. So the material on the machined caps, although harder than the cast iron, will be removed more quickly than if it had the same finish as the cast iron due to the microscopic hills and valleys associated with the rougher machining process. AKA a surface that has already been honed will be harder to remove material from than a surface which hasn't been finished to a hone level yet.

So... we agreed to just make them "duplicates" of the stock caps in terms of hole location. Extra material will be left on top of the caps for use with a custom girdle.
-Chris

'91 Audi 200 20v - Revver/BAT project
'91 Audi 200 20v Avant
'01 Anthracite M5
'90 M3
'85 Euro 635csi
'12 X3
E34 530i (maybe rear-mount soon)
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Re: Chris' 200 20v Sedan - The Revver

Postby Juizer » Mon May 30, 2016 7:39 am

Finland mentioned! Woo Woo! :D
Why no water jackets to the block?
Great to see this going along. :thumbsup:
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Re: Chris' 200 20v Sedan - The Revver

Postby 2.5TYPE44 » Wed Aug 03, 2016 8:27 pm

Update?...
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Re: Chris' 200 20v Sedan - The Revver

Postby ChrisAudi80 » Sun Mar 19, 2017 10:45 pm

2.5TYPE44 wrote:Update?...

Yeah Chris, what's happening with this?
96 S6 auto
95 80Q AEB VEMS
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Re: Chris' 200 20v Sedan - The Revver

Postby loxxrider » Sun Mar 19, 2017 11:33 pm

Sorry for the long time with no update. There has been some progress though.

Oh wow, what a coincidence that Chris just asked for an update as I was typing this lol... haven't posted in this thread in 9 months. Strange!


The main things which have been done lately are:

Boring the head from 11 mm to 12 mm for bigger head studs

Figuring out how to deal with the oil filter location and oil feed for the block

And determining that we will use a stock 3b vibration damper for this build (as per Jeff). He likes it better than any of the other options, and apparently it's 100x the damper an AAN one is. The forged crank and zero balance of everything should help with that too of course.

Final-ish numbers are in for the bottom end specs too

Stock 236mm deck is 9.291. Deck block to 9.285 and use this dimensional set up. Bore 3.228, stroke 3.653, rod 6.250, pin height 1.208. Rod ratio is 1.71, max rod angle is 16.99 degrees, peak piston speed at 10,000 rpm is 159.4 fps. Peak piston acceleration is 6699 g"s

Also, as I suspected, the 034 dry sump pan has been determined to be utter, and totally un-engineered shit. But luckily it will serve as a basis for modification which will make it ok for the job.
Attachments
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3B damper with the dry sump setup
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received_1826455751010653.jpeg
Mesh stuff used to improve oil scavenging
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received_1801065456883016.jpeg
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How we will oil the engine
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received_1793133684342860.jpeg
Going from 11mm to 12mm
received_1793133684342860.jpeg (211.22 KiB) Viewed 10305 times
-Chris

'91 Audi 200 20v - Revver/BAT project
'91 Audi 200 20v Avant
'01 Anthracite M5
'90 M3
'85 Euro 635csi
'12 X3
E34 530i (maybe rear-mount soon)
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Re: Chris' 200 20v Sedan - The Revver

Postby ChrisAudi80 » Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:54 am

Good update :D
96 S6 auto
95 80Q AEB VEMS
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Re: Chris' 200 20v Sedan - The Revver

Postby chaloux » Mon Mar 20, 2017 6:57 pm

Helluva good update!!
Matt

01 Allroad 6speed - RS4 clutch, catless downpipes, stuklr tune
04 Jetta TDI - DC stage I clutch/14lb fw
DEATH by rust - 96 Audi A6 Avant 2.5l TDI
GONE :( 87 4ktq - 4 FOX SNAKES
DEAD :( - 1996 S6 mit TDI
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Re: Chris' 200 20v Sedan - The Revver

Postby loxxrider » Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:15 pm

Thanks! Jeff says he thinks it should be done by the end of the summer. At least the short block. That'd be alright with me!
-Chris

'91 Audi 200 20v - Revver/BAT project
'91 Audi 200 20v Avant
'01 Anthracite M5
'90 M3
'85 Euro 635csi
'12 X3
E34 530i (maybe rear-mount soon)
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Re: Chris' 200 20v Sedan - The Revver

Postby Aktapod » Mon Mar 27, 2017 8:03 pm

Awesome update Chris! You are realizing every T44 owner's pipe dream. Can't wait to see vids of it ripping about.

P.S. Put it in the Avant :)
Kevin (Sven)
- 1991 200 20vt
- 1992 Audi V8 5-speed swap
- 2002 Audi S8 (pending 6-speed swap)
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Re: Chris' 200 20v Sedan - The Revver

Postby ChrisAudi80 » Sat Jan 26, 2019 10:58 am

I wonder what happened to this? Did Chris just move on? I think he has an AC Cobra.
96 S6 auto
95 80Q AEB VEMS
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Re: Chris' 200 20v Sedan - The Revver

Postby themagellan » Sat Feb 23, 2019 6:19 pm

ChrisAudi80 wrote:I wonder what happened to this? Did Chris just move on? I think he has an AC Cobra.


the anticipation is killing me as well
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Re: Chris' 200 20v Sedan - The Revver

Postby mushasho » Sat Feb 23, 2019 6:44 pm

He's alive and well... Was recently sorting out the Avant 3 weeks ago...
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Re: Chris' 200 20v Sedan - The Revver

Postby PRY4SNO » Sat Feb 23, 2019 7:46 pm

PICS OR IT DIDN'T HAPPEN!!!! haha
Find me on Instagram @pry4sno

|| 2010 Golf Sportwagen TDI /// Farmenwagen
|| 1992 80 quattro 20v /// Eventual AAN'd Winter Sled
|| 1990 Coupe quattro /// Because Racecar

|| Spare parts for sale
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Re: Chris' 200 20v Sedan - The Revver

Postby 85oceanic » Fri May 10, 2019 8:57 am

Ya, any new updates Chris?
-Ben-
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