VEMS 1.8t 630cc coldstart problems

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Re: VEMS 1.8t 630cc coldstart problems

Postby Urtorsen » Wed Apr 15, 2015 10:26 pm

You don't sound like a jerk. I'm not actually the one who scoped it.
The Vems is capable of inverting the signal in that manner??I didn't know this.
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Re: VEMS 1.8t 630cc coldstart problems

Postby Urtorsen » Wed Apr 15, 2015 10:31 pm

When you tune the PID to control the idle nicely, which I managed, it effects the action of the throttle valve. It's not a seperate air valve like I think you are misunderstanding
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Re: VEMS 1.8t 630cc coldstart problems

Postby Urtorsen » Wed Apr 15, 2015 10:38 pm

The iac motor drives the throttle plate, its directly attached.
Do you think 500hz and 250hz will have the same action on the motor, I think not but....? And to have the polarity reversing like that would also effect it too no??
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VEMS 1.8t 630cc coldstart problems

Postby Urtorsen » Wed Apr 15, 2015 10:49 pm

You really would have to experiment yourself to see, as I don't seem to be describing the problem. From lugtronic "The idle switch tells the stock Ecu to maintain steady fuel and timing" when the throttle is fully released. The stock ecu uses the 2nd pot for idle motor position (not the TPS pot) when the idle switch is made....So you can then use the iac motor to open and close the plate and ecu uses dedicated idle control maps, which vems has not got yet.
Last edited by Urtorsen on Wed Apr 15, 2015 11:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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VEMS 1.8t 630cc coldstart problems

Postby Urtorsen » Wed Apr 15, 2015 11:00 pm

When the idle switch is then broken the ecu doesn't use the idle map anymore. This along with the horrible action of valve with vems ...... Not good.
Say I'm setting the reference as instructed in first steps of iac control. I give the valve 22% dc. It won't react untill I touch the gas pedal. Then with that assistance it can get to the 1100rpm I'm targeting. This is different to a seperate pwm idle valve like it looks like a lot of people use.
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Re: VEMS 1.8t 630cc coldstart problems

Postby Urtorsen » Wed Apr 15, 2015 11:24 pm

Other people who gave used vems and MS have gone to a seperate 2 wire iac like older models you guys have and it works flawlessly, and before doing so had the exact issues I had, and many of those had a lot of standalone setups under their belt too.
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Re: VEMS 1.8t 630cc coldstart problems

Postby Urtorsen » Wed Apr 15, 2015 11:28 pm

It would be great if the valve response withVEMS was like OEM, then maybe table switch could be used , switching with input from that idle switch in the TB.
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Re: VEMS 1.8t 630cc coldstart problems

Postby Urtorsen » Thu Apr 16, 2015 12:00 am

I see the vems bridge output driver to control electronic throttle has a max of 8khz
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Re: VEMS 1.8t 630cc coldstart problems

Postby loxxrider » Thu Apr 16, 2015 6:10 am

OK I went back and read your posts and now see what you mean when you were saying throttle valve. Sorry, I definitely did misunderstand you and was thinking we were dealing with the single variable of the IAC only.

There is probably a way to control it like stock, but I think you'd be wasting your time. I never saw the need for an IAC at all on my car to be honest. There are rare occasions that they help, but I never used mine 90% of the time. Anyway, as you said a simple IAC would be all you need to get the car running nicely. If you were really determined to do it though, you probably could make an idle map and make a controller to control both the IAC and the throttle plate. It'd probably require a little extra hardware though.
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Re: VEMS 1.8t 630cc coldstart problems

Postby ChrisAudi80 » Fri Apr 17, 2015 10:33 am

I must be the only guy running a piggyback on an Audi. Why? Its different, it works, if you don't want monster power and all the small difficult shit still works. Mostly. Like AC and idle control. And knock. And cold start...
Stuff like that.

Just FYI, check my sig. Yep, 630cc Dekas and E85 on an AEB. Only 10psi on the K03, but its hilarious. Especially 3rd gear.
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VEMS 1.8t 630cc coldstart problems

Postby Urtorsen » Sat Jun 13, 2015 3:39 am

The only thing I'm having against the VEMS is lack of control for this stock throttle body iac motor, it would really set Vems apart from ms and others if they got this sorted. Besides that- it's all you could need, with the features and options its apples and oranges to piggy back for me.
So summertime chicago getting muggy and hot.....I got sick of trying to fine tune the stock iac for ac. I'd have it perfect with AC and driving, and then sometimes warming up or driving it would hang and act strange.......
So I had nothing else except a purge valve around and used it to tide me over untill my ISV valve gets here. The pwm purge valve is a little noisey but works a treat in this emergency lol. With it I have nice steady warm up, steady idle ~ 850-900rpm and with ac on ~950rpm and no cutting out at all.
Next install round display and flex fuel sensor I got from Marc at EFIexpress.
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Re: VEMS 1.8t 630cc coldstart problems

Postby Urtorsen » Sat Jun 13, 2015 3:56 am

Then Injectors,E85 and dyno
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Re: VEMS 1.8t 630cc coldstart problems

Postby ChrisAudi80 » Wed Jun 17, 2015 8:52 am

Kevin Black at Lugtronic apparently knows how to implement good IAC control on VEMS. However, it is most likely a closely guarded secret.
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Re: VEMS 1.8t 630cc coldstart problems

Postby 88a5tq » Wed Jun 17, 2015 10:50 pm

I did it accidentally on mine lol
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Re: VEMS 1.8t 630cc coldstart problems

Postby Marc » Wed Jun 17, 2015 11:05 pm

ChrisAudi80 wrote:Kevin Black at Lugtronic apparently knows how to implement good IAC control on VEMS. However, it is most likely a closely guarded secret.


I've seen his tunes. no secrets and no major differences to whats already been discussed.
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Re: VEMS 1.8t 630cc coldstart problems

Postby Urtorsen » Tue Jun 23, 2015 4:19 am

It works.....because I've used it for almost all of winter from sub zero to warmup, so I think with some effort (from the brains behind VEMS) I think they could get it perfect....enough to be steady,handle the AC, warmup and not interfere with the throttle feel so much. I'm still trying to get a hold of him to see if there is something special lol but no response.
Have the bosch 2 wire ISV now so should be much much better
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VEMS 1.8t 630cc coldstart problems

Postby Urtorsen » Mon Dec 28, 2015 5:26 am

Well it's been a while but had to tear into the car to replace the trans, as 3rd gear was horrible and I think a bad fork.that plus steering rack leak, and other lil bits nagging me. I installed w/meth injection kit, wired in provisions for the E85 flex sensor and generally tidied up the entire loom and powder coated a few things.
After all the trouble with the idle ...last winter coldstarts and the ac during the summer.... I found an old Volvo 2 wire at the breakers yard and wired it into the loom too, really makes idle control a hell of a lot easier. I'm still only fine tuning the PID but already loving it and it doesn't interfere with driving like the integrated idle motor in the AEB throttle body .

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VEMS 1.8t 630cc coldstart problems

Postby Urtorsen » Mon Dec 28, 2015 9:44 pm

Well it blew past the seal on the Volvo one at 25psi. Just put in the stronger looking Bosch 2wire
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Re: VEMS 1.8t 630cc coldstart problems

Postby Urtorsen » Thu Dec 31, 2015 11:43 am

Ok I put in the vw idle valve and no DC will close it. I've read here that you guys run 30% to close the valve but mine never closes more than when disconnected. I'm leaking boost past it so I need the valve that closes fully at 30%dc that i read about you guys using
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Re: VEMS 1.8t 630cc coldstart problems

Postby Urtorsen » Thu Dec 31, 2015 11:04 pm

Nevermind, just realized they never close fully, I vented the input side to after the air filter, just have to install it the right way from the charge pipe to IM instead.
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Re: VEMS 1.8t 630cc coldstart problems

Postby ChrisAudi80 » Sun Apr 17, 2016 4:01 am

Just wondering how you are doing with this. Any chance you can post up your 1.8t AEB 630cc VEMS config? Did you switch to E85?

I am going to install my VEMS unit and harness soon. Probably next month sometime. I am still stock turbo, but I am hoping your config will be usable for mine. I do plan to swap in a larger turbo in the future.

My ECU and harness also came from KB.
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Re: VEMS 1.8t 630cc coldstart problems

Postby ChrisAudi80 » Wed Feb 22, 2017 4:43 am

Wonder where OP went...

Anyway, I am controlling the AEB IAC with VEMS now. Its a little better than no IAC. Took some fiddling. Followed this thread: http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.p ... S-iac-help

I did like Prof315 said: " I wired up the idle motor part of the throttle (pins 1 and 2) backwards so pin 1 is PWM control and pin 2 is switched 12V. Then I set the MS3 PWM idle control to run inverted. I'm running the valve at 200hz and the DC range is roughly from 40% to 100%. "

Have to play with DC a little and still dialling it in. Not so sure my TB is 100% anymore. Might have not open it up and spray a little WD40 in there.
Can actually get idle with AC on to go to 800rpm!
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Re: VEMS 1.8t 630cc coldstart problems

Postby beemer832 » Wed Feb 22, 2017 3:21 pm

ChrisAudi80 wrote:Wonder where OP went...

Anyway, I am controlling the AEB IAC with VEMS now. Its a little better than no IAC. Took some fiddling. Followed this thread: http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.p ... S-iac-help

I did like Prof315 said: " I wired up the idle motor part of the throttle (pins 1 and 2) backwards so pin 1 is PWM control and pin 2 is switched 12V. Then I set the MS3 PWM idle control to run inverted. I'm running the valve at 200hz and the DC range is roughly from 40% to 100%. "

Have to play with DC a little and still dialling it in. Not so sure my TB is 100% anymore. Might have not open it up and spray a little WD40 in there.
Can actually get idle with AC on to go to 800rpm!


I found this discussion after a quick google search. I just installed a VEMS system on my AEB 1.8t and am having idling issues like was mentioned here. I am very new to the tuning side of things and have EFIExpress helping me, but I'd also like to learn on my own.

So I am guessing that my idle issue, which seems to be fine when the car starts, but as soon as you blip the throttle, and it starts to come back down, the car will not idel. When you're driving you must rest your foot on the accelerator at a stop or it will stall. If it stalls, you need to tap the throttle a few times to get it come on.

I did the idle enrichment curve already and I am between .90 and .95 lambda so I assume I am good there.

If this seems to be the issue, I will start following the writeup that was linked and see if that fixes my issue. Thanks!
-josh
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Re: VEMS 1.8t 630cc coldstart problems

Postby ChrisAudi80 » Wed Feb 22, 2017 9:13 pm

beemer832 wrote:
ChrisAudi80 wrote:Wonder where OP went...

Anyway, I am controlling the AEB IAC with VEMS now. Its a little better than no IAC. Took some fiddling. Followed this thread: http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.p ... S-iac-help

I did like Prof315 said: " I wired up the idle motor part of the throttle (pins 1 and 2) backwards so pin 1 is PWM control and pin 2 is switched 12V. Then I set the MS3 PWM idle control to run inverted. I'm running the valve at 200hz and the DC range is roughly from 40% to 100%. "

Have to play with DC a little and still dialling it in. Not so sure my TB is 100% anymore. Might have not open it up and spray a little WD40 in there.
Can actually get idle with AC on to go to 800rpm!


I found this discussion after a quick google search. I just installed a VEMS system on my AEB 1.8t and am having idling issues like was mentioned here. I am very new to the tuning side of things and have EFIExpress helping me, but I'd also like to learn on my own.

So I am guessing that my idle issue, which seems to be fine when the car starts, but as soon as you blip the throttle, and it starts to come back down, the car will not idel. When you're driving you must rest your foot on the accelerator at a stop or it will stall. If it stalls, you need to tap the throttle a few times to get it come on.

I did the idle enrichment curve already and I am between .90 and .95 lambda so I assume I am good there.

If this seems to be the issue, I will start following the writeup that was linked and see if that fixes my issue. Thanks!
-josh

Are you having this issue with AC on or off? I am still dialing this in. Just know that VEMS control of the IAC is not ideal, but better than nothing.
See attached my current config.
Attachments
v3.3_n002154-A-2016.08.23 C2 192us IAC ON.vemscfg
(12.97 KiB) Downloaded 36 times
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95 80Q AEB VEMS
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Re: VEMS 1.8t 630cc coldstart problems

Postby beemer832 » Thu Feb 23, 2017 12:01 pm

I haven't even tested the AC being on yet. It has this issue just trying to idle with no load. I will take a look at your config and see how mine compares. Thanks!
-josh
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