90 CQ 07K Swap

Transplanting the new VW 5cylinder

90 CQ 07K Swap

Postby Nateflix56 » Wed Dec 27, 2017 3:09 pm

Hey guys!

A couple of weeks ago I sold my B5 S4 and picked up a 90 CQ from a friend of mine. The car came with engine and trans mounts, an 07k and an 01E along with boxes of other goodies for the car. I have been doing quite a bit of research on the swap over the last month or so, and since the most valuable information I have come across has stemmed from here I thought that it would only be appropriate to document my project here as well. Between work, school, family and my upcoming wedding progress will be slow.

I have already ordered a TTRS head gasket, head studs, PS adapter and oil pan from Iroz. I have also ordered SAI and EGR delete plates from IE and cam and crank timing lock tools from Amazon.

Timeline will depend on parts, but my hope is to have the engine and trans sitting in the car this spring so I can tinker with the cooling system, turbo piping and wiring over the summer.

My goal a modest 400hp with possibly an EFR 7064. I participated in my first hill climb event in my mk7 GTI and it was the most fun I've ever had in a car. That is where I intend on putting this car to use :drive:

The goods:
ImageAudi Coupe by nate pace, on Flickr

ImageAudi Coupe by nate pace, on Flickr

ImageAudi Coupe by nate pace, on Flickr

ImageAudi Coupe by nate pace, on Flickr

My son and a friend of mine after pushing this car (with a frozen rear ebrake cable) up my driveway with the help of ratchet straps
ImageAudi Coupe by nate pace, on Flickr
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Re: 90 CQ 07K Swap

Postby chaloux » Thu Dec 28, 2017 3:18 pm

Woo! The more 07k swaps the better.
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Re: 90 CQ 07K Swap

Postby Afterthought » Sat Dec 30, 2017 9:10 pm

Looks awesome. If this is the same car I saw on FB you must be pretty close to me. I'm north of Seattle.
That car looks really clean, paint and body wise! Suspension looks good low like that.
Look forward to seeing it when it's done. :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
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Re: 90 CQ 07K Swap

Postby PRY4SNO » Sun Dec 31, 2017 3:41 pm

Looks like you've got a really nice platform to start from, all those parts gives a guy a good head start.

Curious why you picked the EFR7064? That's older tech, relatively speaking. Have you tried BorgWarner's MatchBot? It's incredible for matching your engine to their compressor maps. When I spent a lot of time with that tool I found the 7163 was optimal for a 2.5L. Any plans to use a QSV? I'd say a 6758 or 7163, either with or without a QSV, and some water-meth injection, would really do a nice job in your application (street/rallyx/hillclimb).

Per Hank when he was using my turbo as a sort of beta-test rig, the 7163 should be good for full boost from 3400 rpm to redline... on 91 pump gas. By memory he said it makes decent boost as early as 3000 rpm. Good for 450 bhp on pump gas, 600+ on race fuel / e85 (not including w/m injection). And that's on the old-school 2.5L 20v I5, not even accounting for the awesome flowing heads on the 07k.
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|| 2010 Golf Sportwagen TDI /// Farmenwagen
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Re: 90 CQ 07K Swap

Postby audifreakjim » Sun Dec 31, 2017 8:04 pm

I dunno, the 8374 matches up pretty well too :) I have been enjoying the shit out of it. It's not instant spool, but my god it goes like a mofo when on boost!
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Re: 90 CQ 07K Swap

Postby Nateflix56 » Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:14 am

Afterthought wrote:Looks awesome. If this is the same car I saw on FB you must be pretty close to me. I'm north of Seattle.
That car looks really clean, paint and body wise! Suspension looks good low like that.
Look forward to seeing it when it's done. :thumbsup: :thumbsup:


It most likely is, I'm down near the South Hill area. The car is already on KW's, however I will likely raise it a bit to accommodate larger wheels while keeping the tires meaty.


PRY4SNO wrote:Looks like you've got a really nice platform to start from, all those parts gives a guy a good head start.

Curious why you picked the EFR7064? That's older tech, relatively speaking. Have you tried BorgWarner's MatchBot? It's incredible for matching your engine to their compressor maps. When I spent a lot of time with that tool I found the 7163 was optimal for a 2.5L. Any plans to use a QSV? I'd say a 6758 or 7163, either with or without a QSV, and some water-meth injection, would really do a nice job in your application (street/rallyx/hillclimb).

Per Hank when he was using my turbo as a sort of beta-test rig, the 7163 should be good for full boost from 3400 rpm to redline... on 91 pump gas. By memory he said it makes decent boost as early as 3000 rpm. Good for 450 bhp on pump gas, 600+ on race fuel / e85 (not including w/m injection). And that's on the old-school 2.5L 20v I5, not even accounting for the awesome flowing heads on the 07k.




I have not tried matchbot, but I will definitely give that a go. It looks like I'll need to make use of those YouTube tutorials. Admittedly I still have quite a bit of research to do before pulling the trigger on a turbo. On my last build I went overboard using a Garrett T-70 on a VRT which had a bit more lag than I wanted. My intent was to have room to grow, but this time around I want to maintain efficiency.

I don't plan on running a quick spool valve, but I will eventually run WMI. I'm not sure if I want to run WMI out of the gate or wait until I get the car running and all of the bugs worked out. My biggest challenges overall during this build will be my lack of welding and tuning experience. I have years of experience analyzing diesel engine data logs so I'm not completely ignorant, but I'll need to find someone to tune the car fully before I'll work up enough courage to tinker with it.
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90 CQ 07K Swap

Postby Afterthought » Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:35 am

The Kw setup looks awesome and what do you think of the ride? I’m Trying to decide between that and Ground control / Koni for a future setup on URQ.
FWIW another cool option to consider , My buddy who is in the area just had his car built (old school 20VT AAN, 2.6. With a port job on the head and wiseco pistons , etc ) running a Wagner exhaust manifold and Xona 65-64 turbo. He’s on break in tune at 15 psi and made over 410 Wheel, but with the “full” 15 psi before 3100 rpm. It’s crazy quick spool time . Dyno tune was done locally but he is running Motronic . I’d definitely start by talking to Marc @ EFI express in the tuning/hardware area
****
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Re: 90 CQ 07K Swap

Postby Nateflix56 » Tue Jan 02, 2018 12:51 pm

Afterthought wrote:The Kw setup looks awesome and what do you think of the ride? I’m Trying to decide between that and Ground control / Koni for a future setup on URQ.
FWIW another cool option to consider , My buddy who is in the area just had his car built (old school 20VT AAN, 2.6. With a port job on the head and wiseco pistons , etc ) running a Wagner exhaust manifold and Xona 65-64 turbo. He’s on break in tune at 15 psi and made over 410 Wheel, but with the “full” 15 psi before 3100 rpm. It’s crazy quick spool time . Dyno tune was done locally but he is running Motronic . I’d definitely start by talking to Marc @ EFI express in the tuning/hardware area


I actually haven't driven the car. When I picked it up the PO had done the timing belt and claims that the front main started puking when he lost motivation since he was planning on doing the swap anyway. I towed it home and started disassembling it immediately.

Your buddies car wouldn't happen to be one of the ones recently posted by AMD would it?

I'll definitely be reaching out to Marc later this year. While I'm prepared to make my own harness I would be thrilled if there was a PNP option in 2018 :D
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90 CQ 07K Swap

Postby Afterthought » Tue Jan 02, 2018 1:34 pm

[quote="Nateflix56"]
Your buddies car wouldn't happen to be one of the ones recently posted by AMD would it?
[\quote]
Yes sir the engine was built by AMD and he’s got some dyno tuning in on it so far but not many miles. Maybe 800 or so yet so he hasn’t turned the boost up. It’s at 415 WHP now and I think he just wants 450-500 or so.
He is a good friend and came by the other day and let me take it for a drive . He feels my pain since I’ve been driving a 10V 80Q. I was real impressed with how quick that boost comes on in the 2.5 but I don’t know what the top end is on it .
Depending on what you go with for ECU maybe Jason can tune it , I’m not sure if he deals with VEMS or not I think he’s mostly Motronic . I wasn’t up to doing a harness so Marc made me one for my swap , a full custom VEMS harness that’s plug and play and only requires a few terminations to be done at the fusebox . If you get there and need help with that I have been In the fusebox a few times and I do have some diagrams .
****
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Re: 90 CQ 07K Swap

Postby Nateflix56 » Tue Jan 02, 2018 3:05 pm

Afterthought wrote:
Nateflix56 wrote:Your buddies car wouldn't happen to be one of the ones recently posted by AMD would it?
[\quote]
Yes sir the engine was built by AMD and he’s got some dyno tuning in on it so far but not many miles. Maybe 800 or so yet so he hasn’t turned the boost up. It’s at 415 WHP now and I think he just wants 450-500 or so.
He is a good friend and came by the other day and let me take it for a drive . He feels my pain since I’ve been driving a 10V 80Q. I was real impressed with how quick that boost comes on in the 2.5 but I don’t know what the top end is on it .
Depending on what you go with for ECU maybe Jason can tune it , I’m not sure if he deals with VEMS or not I think he’s mostly Motronic . I wasn’t up to doing a harness so Marc made me one for my swap , a full custom VEMS harness that’s plug and play and only requires a few terminations to be done at the fusebox . If you get there and need help with that I have been In the fusebox a few times and I do have some diagrams .



My thoughts exactly, I haven't seen any 07K's posted up by them either. Locally they're the only tuner I'm familiar with, unless I tried going down south. Might be tough to get in with John Reed, and not sure if he does VEMS either.
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Re: 90 CQ 07K Swap

Postby Nateflix56 » Wed Jan 03, 2018 9:34 am

Update, got a few things in the mail.

Timing tool kit, found on Amazon for $50
ImageUntitled by nate pace, on Flickr

SAI and Vacuum pump delete from IE
ImageUntitled by nate pace, on Flickr

Electrical manual that I found on eBay.
ImageUntitled by nate pace, on Flickr


Fiancé read my wish list and got me these dollys for Christmas. Space is limited in my garage so these will be a huge help.
ImageUntitled by nate pace, on Flickr
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Re: 90 CQ 07K Swap

Postby Nateflix56 » Wed Jan 03, 2018 9:38 am

Got quite a bit removed. This week I will drop the exhaust, driveline and axles before pulling the engine and trans.
ImageUntitled by nate pace, on Flickr
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Re: 90 CQ 07K Swap

Postby audifreakjim » Wed Jan 03, 2018 12:09 pm

Looks like a handy tool kit for a good price. Nice find.
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90 CQ 07K Swap

Postby Afterthought » Thu Jan 04, 2018 2:59 pm

I like it. Good progress . She did good on the Dolly’s, I got the cheaper ones and had to weld a couple of the wheels on after first use .
I’m sure you know the head, oil pan, valve cover, and some of those parts are good for a 20V/20VT enthusiast . Don’t know what you’re doing with them.
Also... nice Denali, L5P? LML?
****
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Re: 90 CQ 07K Swap

Postby Nateflix56 » Thu Jan 04, 2018 3:44 pm

Afterthought wrote:I like it. Good progress . She did good on the Dolly’s, I got the cheaper ones and had to weld a couple of the wheels on after first use .
I’m sure you know the head, oil pan, valve cover, and some of those parts are good for a 20V/20VT enthusiast . Don’t know what you’re doing with them.
Also... nice Denali, L5P? LML?


I plan on selling off the parts I remove. Not sure what most of it is worth since I'm new to the 20V world so I'll have some research to do.

Thanks, I'd love it if it was an L5P but the Denali is an LML. I've been playing with the idea of doing a CP3 conversion and delete before the CP4 scatters, but I also enjoy having a warranty so I may do some cosmetic mods instead.

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90 CQ 07K Swap

Postby Afterthought » Thu Jan 04, 2018 4:51 pm

Sweet. I have the delete on my lml. Hopefully the CP4 hangs in there / maybe I need to upgrade the lift pump.
Some of the 7A stuff is useful. I’ll take the flywheel and valve cover if you are looking to make a little money back.
7A Head with cams I see going for about $300, last 7A pan I bought was about $100 with the sump tube .
****
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Re: 90 CQ 07K Swap

Postby Nateflix56 » Mon Jan 22, 2018 1:11 pm

Haven't spent much time out in the garage in the past couple of weeks, but Saturday I was able to make a bit of progress. Got the engine and trans out of the car and learned a few things.
Found loose axle bolts, completely blown motor mount, and a loose control arm bolt. :bangshead: Luckily I had no intention of driving the car as is, but I will definitely be checking over every bit of the suspension soon.

Started to clean up the bay a little bit, but I'll need to make some room in the garage if I plan on making much progress. The next items on the list:
-Thorough scrubbing of the engine bay
-Figure out what I need to swap in a vacuum brake booster
-Go through the wiring and determine what I'm keeping, what I'm losing and what I'm replacing.
-Heater Core fittings did not look very healthy, so the dash will be coming out. While it's out I want to remove the A/C components and plug the hole in the firewall. May try to find a non-AC 90 in the Junk yard and see if there's a plate that will work.


ImageUntitled by nate pace, on Flickr


Afterthought - I did have one person express interest in the whole engine on the Seattle FB group so I'll see if he is still interested. If not then I'll part it out.
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Re: 90 CQ 07K Swap

Postby Afterthought » Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:56 am

Definitely if you have someone interested in the whole thing take it. its easier.
The brakes- definitely 10x easier to get all this sorted now before the engine is in.

For the booster swap, you can get a booster new for around 275.00 or fund a used 4K setup or similar (ebay or junkyard) I found a 4000 Quattro donor and grabbed the whole thing (booster, MC , PS pump/rack/lines)

If you want to replace the little proportioning valve, There is a Tilton brand metric proportioning valve that I have which was a direct fit and did not require anything to be changed with the lines

I don't know if you're planning electric or otherwise for the power steering, but once the booster is gone you will have a supply and return line coming from your power track to the booster that is not used. You could tie it back together and make a loop or change racks to make it cleaner. The stock pump has too high of pressure and needs to be modified (delete a piston from it) or changed with one from a booster-less car.
****
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Re: 90 CQ 07K Swap

Postby Nateflix56 » Mon Jan 29, 2018 9:42 am

Afterthought wrote:Definitely if you have someone interested in the whole thing take it. its easier.
The brakes- definitely 10x easier to get all this sorted now before the engine is in.

For the booster swap, you can get a booster new for around 275.00 or fund a used 4K setup or similar (ebay or junkyard) I found a 4000 Quattro donor and grabbed the whole thing (booster, MC , PS pump/rack/lines)

If you want to replace the little proportioning valve, There is a Tilton brand metric proportioning valve that I have which was a direct fit and did not require anything to be changed with the lines

I don't know if you're planning electric or otherwise for the power steering, but once the booster is gone you will have a supply and return line coming from your power track to the booster that is not used. You could tie it back together and make a loop or change racks to make it cleaner. The stock pump has too high of pressure and needs to be modified (delete a piston from it) or changed with one from a booster-less car.


Thanks, that is good to know. I've browsed through row52 and Craigslist but have not come across any 4K parts yet. I also need a driveline but I'll add the brake setup to the list.

For the power steering, I ordered the Iroz PS pump bracket that allows you to mount a 1.8T pump in place of the AC compressor. I like the idea of using a 4k rack vs looping the lines together, I may add that to the list.
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Re: 90 CQ 07K Swap

Postby Nateflix56 » Thu Feb 08, 2018 12:56 pm

Not much to update, garage is beyond packed at the moment. 3 engines, 2 transmissions and a 5" lift kit for my truck makes it tight to get around without moving everything. Lift kit goes on Saturday so that will free up some space.

Received some rear euro bumper mounts made by someone in the small chassis Facebook group so I can mount the S2 bumper eventually. I was able to clean up the engine bay a bit. Don't expect to go too crazy with cleaning at this point but I'll at least give the subframe and bay a good once over.

ImageUntitled by nate pace, on Flickr

ImageUntitled by nate pace, on Flickr
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