Basic 07K Facts?

Transplanting the new VW 5cylinder

Re: Basic 07K Facts?

Postby Hank » Tue Jul 08, 2014 1:47 am

And the -2 teeth happen approximately 16.5 teeth off TDC, or 100 degrees.
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Re: Basic 07K Facts?

Postby Noisy Cricket » Tue Jul 08, 2014 3:28 am

Thank you!

I assume that means 100 degrees before TDC #1? If so, that's quite an offset relative to GM, if I read the waveform correctly.
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Re: Basic 07K Facts?

Postby PITTS » Thu Jul 17, 2014 3:08 pm

Didn't I read some place that the 07k used the #5 cylinder for determining TDC... not #1 ? Could this be a real problem for the GM harness/ECU? Or could you just locate the wiring differently to the right (wrong?) cylinder?

Would be super neat if there's an easily supported factory ECU available...
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Re: Basic 07K Facts?

Postby Noisy Cricket » Thu Jul 17, 2014 6:02 pm

07K does time cam timing off of #5 when you're setting the chains up, according to my literature.

As far as GM PCMs are concerned, I am fairly sure that the firing order is hard coded into the operating system (basic setup and firmware in aftermarket-speak) but, at least on the V8 models, you can tell it which cylinders that each knock sensor is sensitive to. So you could just repin the ignition coils and injectors to go to the appropriate cylinders. (It's FAR easier to repin at the PCM than it is to redo the wiring. Repinning is silly easy) The only thing that would be a problem would be if you were watching anything cylinder-specific, because the cylinder that the scantool would report would be the one that the PCM thinks it is, not actual. Not that this really matters since I am fairly sure that the firing order is the same.

Still have not had a chance to play with Atlas coding to verify what can and can't be done. I'm running flat-out at work and any time when I'm NOT running flat-out, I'm running flat-out trying to get my car finished, no time to putter around with maybe-someday things.
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Re: Basic 07K Facts?

Postby Noisy Cricket » Sat Jul 19, 2014 5:00 pm

Poked around in Atlas coding (P12 controller, forgot what OS).

HPT hasn't hacked it much. Just the usual basic tables but nothing you can really get into. Basic VE tables (VE vs. cam position that is, multiple tables involved) and basic MAF-transfer and very basic injector maps. Nowhere near as comprehensive as the V8 controllers have been hacked, which only makes sense given that's where the market is. And I didn't see any OS upgrade options for forced induction, so you'd be on your own for hacking that too.

Well, it was a neat idea anyway. eBay browsing had the computer, wiring, and throttle body available for $500 or so.
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'86 QSW (MC2 goes here. Eventually.)
'83 GTI (accidental ownership, now what?)
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Re: Basic 07K Facts?

Postby bradyzq » Mon Jul 28, 2014 1:22 pm

You could always run MAF-only, and disable MAP high errors as needed. Works on the V8's!
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Re: Basic 07K Facts?

Postby elaw » Fri Aug 15, 2014 12:12 pm

Hey here's something I haven't seen discussed here and didn't find anything in a search.

The 07K when originally installed by the factory... which way does it slant and by how much?

What I'm really curious about is when you install one of them in an older Audi, the engine is tilted to the left as viewed from the front. I'm wondering if the 07Ks were tilted the other way in the cars they originally came in, and if so what the effects would be with regard to oil drainage from the top of the engine back to the oil pan.

I had actually once toyed with the idea of putting a Saab engine in my 80q but one thing that concerned me was the engine would be tilted in a direction opposite of that for which it was designed, and would that result in a valve cover full of oil...
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Re: Basic 07K Facts?

Postby alxdgr8 » Fri Aug 15, 2014 12:24 pm

elaw wrote:Hey here's something I haven't seen discussed here and didn't find anything in a search.

The 07K when originally installed by the factory... which way does it slant and by how much?

What I'm really curious about is when you install one of them in an older Audi, the engine is tilted to the left as viewed from the front. I'm wondering if the 07Ks were tilted the other way in the cars they originally came in, and if so what the effects would be with regard to oil drainage from the top of the engine back to the oil pan.

I had actually once toyed with the idea of putting a Saab engine in my 80q but one thing that concerned me was the engine would be tilted in a direction opposite of that for which it was designed, and would that result in a valve cover full of oil...


It's mounted at 15* in both applications (same direction). It leans back in the transverse mounting and leans to the passenger side in longitudinal.

My ideas on this:
http://rennlist.com/forums/11266229-post100.html (full thread: http://rennlist.com/forums/944-turbo-an ... ead-7.html)
-Alex- @vexartmedia on Instagram
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Re: Basic 07K Facts?

Postby elaw » Wed Dec 17, 2014 8:58 am

Hey... the later ('08+, CBU/CBT) 07K engines... do they have an 8-bolt or a 6-bolt flywheel attachment? Some stuff I see in that Rennlist thread implies that it's 8-bolt.

If it's 8, is it the same pattern as the old I5s?

Edit: Never mind! :roll: I did some Googling and found some photos of a CBUA someone was selling, and it has 6 bolts for the FW, not 8.
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Re: Basic 07K Facts?

Postby audifreakjim » Wed Dec 17, 2014 10:28 am

The TTRS is 8 bolt, same pattern but different offset for the flywheel.
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Re: Basic 07K Facts?

Postby alxdgr8 » Wed Dec 17, 2014 3:16 pm

elaw wrote:Hey... the later ('08+, CBU/CBT) 07K engines... do they have an 8-bolt or a 6-bolt flywheel attachment? Some stuff I see in that Rennlist thread implies that it's 8-bolt.

If it's 8, is it the same pattern as the old I5s?

Edit: Never mind! :roll: I did some Googling and found some photos of a CBUA someone was selling, and it has 6 bolts for the FW, not 8.


I think it's pretty clear in my Rennlist thread, but let me know if I should clarify anything. Here's what I have:

CBT/CBU
These are the later motors found in MY 08+ and are 168hp/176ft-lb. These have an upgraded timing chain and use an 6-bolt flywheel attachment on the crank. No forged crankshafts are known to exist in these motors, however the forged crankshaft for the TT-RS drops right in. The TT-RS crankshaft can be bought new from VW/Audi for $1100-1300. The TT-RS also has an 8-bolt flywheel attachment.
-Alex- @vexartmedia on Instagram
1992 Porsche 968 (07K transplant in progress)
1983 Aud UrQ (20vt swap in progress)
1995 Audi 90QS (Previously 32v V8, now AEB 1.8T)
1986 Audi Coupe GT (7A swap and more)
2010 VW Touareg TDI (DD, tow rig)
2001 Ducati ST4
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Re: Basic 07K Facts?

Postby elaw » Wed Dec 17, 2014 3:51 pm

Yeah, what threw me off was this bit from the 2nd post in that thread:
I've decided to go the slightly more expensive route by going with a later 8-bolt cast crank. I'll most likely purchase the forged TT-RS crank later. This will give me the benefits of the updated chain drive and 8-bolt crank instead of 6-bolt which should make my clutch options cheaper and stronger.


The wishful-thinking part of my brain interpreted that to mean that the later NA cranks might use 8 bolts. Like I said, wishful thinking... :nuts:
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Re: Basic 07K Facts?

Postby alxdgr8 » Wed Dec 17, 2014 6:00 pm

elaw wrote:Yeah, what threw me off was this bit from the 2nd post in that thread:
I've decided to go the slightly more expensive route by going with a later 8-bolt cast crank. I'll most likely purchase the forged TT-RS crank later. This will give me the benefits of the updated chain drive and 8-bolt crank instead of 6-bolt which should make my clutch options cheaper and stronger.


The wishful-thinking part of my brain interpreted that to mean that the later NA cranks might use 8 bolts. Like I said, wishful thinking... :nuts:


Ah, yes I will fix that. Not sure what I meant by that.
-Alex- @vexartmedia on Instagram
1992 Porsche 968 (07K transplant in progress)
1983 Aud UrQ (20vt swap in progress)
1995 Audi 90QS (Previously 32v V8, now AEB 1.8T)
1986 Audi Coupe GT (7A swap and more)
2010 VW Touareg TDI (DD, tow rig)
2001 Ducati ST4
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Re: Basic 07K Facts?

Postby glibobbo21 » Wed Dec 24, 2014 8:44 am

Watch out for the late blocks. They have the oil pressure regulating valve and a unique oil pump that cant be swapped. I have a late style block in my car.
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Re: Basic 07K Facts?

Postby elaw » Fri Dec 26, 2014 6:24 pm

Okay so here's my next dumb question...

I made an inquiry about an engine that's available locally out of an '09 Jetta. They said that car does not have a p/s pump on the engine, it's electric.

Is that true of all years, or just the later engines? Is there a clever way of retrofitting a p/s pump to an engine that originally came without one?
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Re: Basic 07K Facts?

Postby Noisy Cricket » Sun Dec 28, 2014 2:17 pm

I don't think the accessory drive layout would allow for a power steering pump. Every 07K that I've seen in the wild has had electric steering, including '05.
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Re: Basic 07K Facts?

Postby Mcstiff » Sun Dec 28, 2014 2:28 pm

I'm pretty sure that Sean's urQ has hydro steering.
I would like to play with an electric rack at some point, seems like a good way to get weight behind the axle.
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Re: Basic 07K Facts?

Postby chaloux » Sun Dec 28, 2014 3:44 pm

Dad will be using vacuum brakes on the s6 and I believe electric steering to eliminate the need for the PS pump.
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Re: Basic 07K Facts?

Postby mushasho » Sun Dec 28, 2014 3:48 pm

chaloux wrote:Dad will be using vacuum brakes on the s6 and I believe electric steering to eliminate the need for the PS pump.


In for PS pump removal mod...

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Re: Basic 07K Facts?

Postby chaloux » Sun Dec 28, 2014 4:43 pm

Just swiped a unit out of an A6. I think it's fairly easy to do.
Matt

01 Allroad 6speed - RS4 clutch, catless downpipes, stuklr tune
04 Jetta TDI - DC stage I clutch/14lb fw
DEATH by rust - 96 Audi A6 Avant 2.5l TDI
GONE :( 87 4ktq - 4 FOX SNAKES
DEAD :( - 1996 S6 mit TDI
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Re: Basic 07K Facts?

Postby elaw » Mon Dec 29, 2014 9:47 am

Ah, I think I figured out what caused my confusion.

In this photo:
07K belt setup DSCF9921.jpg
07K belt setup DSCF9921.jpg (157.16 KiB) Viewed 10247 times

...I thought the pulley in the upper left area was the PS pump. But maybe it's the water pump?

On a related note, how much do you guys suggest budgeting annually for replacement of serpentine tensioner/idler pulleys on these motors? ;)
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Re: Basic 07K Facts?

Postby Hank » Thu Jan 15, 2015 7:16 pm

Old, but all Beetles and some 11-12 Jettas had PS pumps up top. They make an intake manifold a chore though.

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Re: Basic 07K Facts?

Postby audifreakjim » Thu Jan 15, 2015 8:06 pm

Yes, the most upper left pulley is the water pump.
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Re: Basic 07K Facts?

Postby chaloux » Thu Jan 15, 2015 9:27 pm

Hey Hank, just curious what the solution is for the flywheel - are you making your own or is 034 doing something about the ring gear? Or something else entirely?
Matt

01 Allroad 6speed - RS4 clutch, catless downpipes, stuklr tune
04 Jetta TDI - DC stage I clutch/14lb fw
DEATH by rust - 96 Audi A6 Avant 2.5l TDI
GONE :( 87 4ktq - 4 FOX SNAKES
DEAD :( - 1996 S6 mit TDI
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Re: Basic 07K Facts?

Postby mbelt » Tue May 26, 2015 4:25 am

Hi,

I am pretty new to 07k engines, i just bought BGQ engine that i want to use in URQ with 01E. My question is how far can You go with power using cast crank ( 101F) i am thinking about full spec hillclimb engine ( 600 HP+).

Regards,

Marcin
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