Motronic 2.3.2 ignition cut launch control

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Motronic 2.3.2 ignition cut launch control

Postby vwnut8392 » Tue Dec 24, 2013 4:46 pm

I originally posted this on S2forum.com but i figured i'd put it up here in the DIY section to contribute here as well. i have tested this on my personal car and it works great. This is also used in conjunction with an N2MB WOT box to get the end result (backfiring and flames) in the video at the bottom.

I've been thinking about launch control on the stock ECU for some time but couldnt think of a way to get it to work. i had discovered some information about the coding plug near the ECU AKA the one that normally has a jumper in the USA URS4/URS6 cars for the speed limiter. what i had learned is that if you ground one of the other pins in the connector it makes the ECU switch to a different ignition map! this got my gears turning because i used to do the same thing with digifant 1 ECU's to have launch control on them. i dug out my moates rom emulator and started tracing the maps to see what map the ECU would trace when i grounded different pins in the connector and i found it. my next step was to retard the timing from the set RPM point (4500RPM) so i loaded up tunerproRT and winOLS. after looking at the map in winOLS i decided to make roughly half the map that the ECU referenced 00. once i did that i corrected the checksum with winOLS and saved the new modified file. than i loaded the new modified file into my emulator and tested it out. i got the results i was looking for! so my next step was to figure out a way to ground this pin when i wanted to use the launch control. i remembered how i had setup the launch control in my old GTI using the cruise control button and switch on the wiper stalk along with a clutch switch which i used an old brake light switch for my clutch switch. when i wired it up in the audi it worked just the way i had planned it to, when you hold the set button on the stalk and clutch in the map is switched and launch control is enabled also when you flip on the cruise on switch and clutch in it enables the launch control but also allows you to have a no lift shifting feature as well because the timing is retarded the whole way from the set point AKA 4500RPM the whole way to the end of the map.

Here is a more in depth description of how to do this and what you'll need to get it done.

For starters you must have a modified ECU that has chip sockets installed to do this. I posted in this thread what you have to do to get setup and socket you ECU.
[url]http://www.s2forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=63826"]http://www.s2forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=63826[/url]

The next piece of hardware you are going to need is an EEPROM programmer and a electronically erasable EEPROM. i used SST27SF512 chips as they are readily available and cheap.

on the software end your going to need winOLS to correct your checksum or some form of checksum correction for that matter. also i suggest having tunerproRT and the XDF to go along with your revision. in my case i have 4A0 907 551AA ECU and firmware.

to modify the BIN file for the 551AA ECU fire up winOLS and load your binary that you want to use. once you do that locate hex offset 0x955F, this is the map that is used when the pin in the coding plug is grounded.

Here is what the map looks like before changes are made.
Image

you have to figure out where you want to start cutting ignition and thats where i used tunerPRO RT and my XDF file.

Here is the same map in a more easily viewable form before the changes are made.
Image

i looked at the map in both programs and figured out where i wanted my ignition to be cut at and this is what i ended up with. to retard the timing take where you want you launch control to start and make the binary 00 from that point the whole way to the end of the map.

My timing map after i made changes in winOLS.
Image

Here is the real world value and the values in hex in tunerPRO RT just so you can see what changed.
Image
Image

Dont forget to correct your checksum!!!!!! car gets angry without it being right!
with that being said you need to get your new binary on to a chip so this is where the EEPROM programmer comes into play so get the BIN file burned to the chip and install it in your ECU. dont forget to make sure the chip is in the socket the right way, if its backwards your car will not run and could damage your ECU or the chip. with the chip burned and it installed in its new home plug your ECU back in start your car just to make sure everything went well.

The next step is to tie in a wire to the pin in the coding plug. The picture below shows the plug and the pin we need to ground to make the map switch.
Image

What i did was modify an old speed limiter plug so that i didnt have to cut into my harness. This is what the speed limiter plug plug looks like together and taken apart.
Image
Image

This is the plug taken apart and modified.
Image
Image
Image

With that done i plugged it into the coding plug and tied a wire that i ran across the car to my clutch switch AKA an old brake light switch, than from there up to my cruise control switches on my turn signal stalk and than to the grounding crown above my fuse box on the drivers side. you can wire this up however you want to suit what your doing, i just shared how i set mine up because of the sequence you have to go through to enable and disable the feature. my way doesnt mess with normal daily driving if you have the cruise switch off or your not pressing the set button on the stalk. to make launch work you have to press and hold the set button and have the clutch in. to have no lift shift and launch control all you have to do is turn the cruise switch on and clutch in. with the switch on there is no need to hold the set button for launch control.

This is a wiring diagram i created real quick to share exactly how to wire the WOT BOX into URS4 and URS6 cars.
Image

Here is a video of mine functioning on this setup. i have mine set to -22.50 degrees of timing which is the most retard you can get also its set to kick in a 4500RPM. Im making 8 to 10 PSI on this so far but im using the stock K24 as well so that might have something to do with it also i would venture to say the boost chip mapping plays a role in how much boost you can make on this setup.


lastly i hold no responsibility for what could happen to your car during the process of adding/enabling this feature or what using this feature will do to your car. this form of launch control is hard on your car as it basically causes fuel to ignite inside your turbo manifold and turbo thus creating load on the engine and and creating boost while standing still. This will raise EGT's very rapidly which can crack or break your turbo manifold and damage your turbo. If you have a stock exhaust with a cat i suggest you not use this feature as it will most likely melt your cat and or blow the exhaust off of your car. The more free flowing the exhaust the better. The backfiring is extremely loud and will probably make your neighbors and law enforcement very angry with you so use this wisely. with all of that said enjoy having the big bang launch control with your OEM ECU without spending big bucks on a stanalone ECU.

If you have any questions please feel free to ask and i'll try my best to help you out. as for other versions of the I5 20V turbo ECU im not sure which map has to be modified to allow this work. all of the different revisions have different map offsets but if your capable of figuring out how to do this than you can most likely locate the map offset for your specific ECU. also i dont know if this is possible with the distributor driven engines as i dont have one at my disposal to mess with. if it is possible im sure you could figure it out with the info i provided here.
Last edited by vwnut8392 on Thu Jan 29, 2015 4:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"The really good drivers got the bugs on the side windows." Walter Röhrl

1984 4000S quattro-AAN swapped
1983 UR coupe quattro
1995 URS6 avant
1992 GTI VR6
1992 GTI G60 X-flow turbo
1986 16V jetta coupe
1985 golf 4 door-AKA the monster golf
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Re: Motronic 2.3.2 ignition cut launch control

Postby vwnut8392 » Tue Dec 24, 2013 5:28 pm

Here is a list of the ECU's and the location of the map that can be modified to suit your setup. its always a 16X16 map.

ECU part number ----- HEX offset where map starts

4A0 907 551A ----- 0X958C
4A0 907 551AA ----- 0X955F
4A0 907 551C ----- 0XB594
895 907 551B ----- 0XB594
8A0 907 551B ----- 0x9594
8A0 907 551C ----- 0XB598



Dont hold me to these as i havnt tested them all individually. i just used hex comparison software and found where each map lined up with the 551AA ECU that im using.
"The really good drivers got the bugs on the side windows." Walter Röhrl

1984 4000S quattro-AAN swapped
1983 UR coupe quattro
1995 URS6 avant
1992 GTI VR6
1992 GTI G60 X-flow turbo
1986 16V jetta coupe
1985 golf 4 door-AKA the monster golf
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Re: Motronic 2.3.2 ignition cut launch control

Postby ringbearer » Tue Dec 24, 2013 11:46 pm

Very cool work. Way over my head not being much of a computer guy but props to you for making it work and sharing how to do it if you are computer savvy!
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Re: Motronic 2.3.2 ignition cut launch control

Postby chaloux » Wed Dec 25, 2013 2:21 am

Holy shit. Huge props. No way in hell am I doing it though LOL. But very cool for those on motronic.
Matt

01 Allroad 6speed - RS4 clutch, catless downpipes, stuklr tune
04 Jetta TDI - DC stage I clutch/14lb fw
DEATH by rust - 96 Audi A6 Avant 2.5l TDI
GONE :( 87 4ktq - 4 FOX SNAKES
DEAD :( - 1996 S6 mit TDI
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Re: Motronic 2.3.2 ignition cut launch control

Postby Mcstiff » Thu Dec 26, 2013 12:17 am

Did you ever find that table for the 7a? I'd guess the <150kpa levels are similar.
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Re: Motronic 2.3.2 ignition cut launch control

Postby vwnut8392 » Fri Dec 27, 2013 2:33 pm

Thank everyone! im glad it works as i'd hoped because i was running out of idea's. there's actually 5 different ignition maps in these motronic ECU's that could be used for anything like running race fuel, E85 etc. the only thing is i havnt figured out how to make the ECU read any of the other maps yet. i only have access to these 2 at the moment.

Mcstiff wrote:Did you ever find that table for the 7a? I'd guess the <150kpa levels are similar.

I still dont have a 7A powered car to experiment with sadly. only thing i have are 2 hitachi ECU's from 90 20V's. i need to run an emulator on a car and trace mapping to see what does what to even start to figure out any further mapping.

Here's another video of me launching my car on the setup.

"The really good drivers got the bugs on the side windows." Walter Röhrl

1984 4000S quattro-AAN swapped
1983 UR coupe quattro
1995 URS6 avant
1992 GTI VR6
1992 GTI G60 X-flow turbo
1986 16V jetta coupe
1985 golf 4 door-AKA the monster golf
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Re: Motronic 2.3.2 ignition cut launch control

Postby AngryTaco » Mon Jan 06, 2014 3:02 pm

oh if only I could do this on my Mac-11
1986 4000cs Turbo Quattro
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Re: Motronic 2.3.2 ignition cut launch control

Postby ringbearer » Mon Jan 06, 2014 4:50 pm

VEMS will do it :)
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Re: Motronic 2.3.2 ignition cut launch control

Postby AngryTaco » Mon Jan 06, 2014 5:42 pm

yeah yeah. Soon enough! Now I gotta decide between Viper Brakes for the Dodge or VEMS for the Audi.....maybe I should just finish school and get on with my life lol
1986 4000cs Turbo Quattro
2001 Dodge Dakota R/T Standard Cab
1990 V8 quattro
1995 urS6

-Hersh Performance and Racing Products-
http://www.hershperformance.com

Powerflex Dealer

Mechanic by day, Machinist by night, Student by Sleep
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Re: Motronic 2.3.2 ignition cut launch control

Postby chaloux » Mon Jan 06, 2014 5:56 pm

Seems like an easy enough decision lol
Matt

01 Allroad 6speed - RS4 clutch, catless downpipes, stuklr tune
04 Jetta TDI - DC stage I clutch/14lb fw
DEATH by rust - 96 Audi A6 Avant 2.5l TDI
GONE :( 87 4ktq - 4 FOX SNAKES
DEAD :( - 1996 S6 mit TDI
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Re: Motronic 2.3.2 ignition cut launch control

Postby AngryTaco » Mon Jan 06, 2014 6:31 pm

It is literally a decision between Stop or GO
1986 4000cs Turbo Quattro
2001 Dodge Dakota R/T Standard Cab
1990 V8 quattro
1995 urS6

-Hersh Performance and Racing Products-
http://www.hershperformance.com

Powerflex Dealer

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Re: Motronic 2.3.2 ignition cut launch control

Postby elaw » Thu Jan 09, 2014 2:58 pm

vwnut8392 wrote:Here is the same map in a more easily viewable form before the changes are made.
Image

Hey just out of curiosity... are the X-axis values in that table (14.0, 24.0, 34.0 and so on) manifold pressure?

I've been looking for stock 20VT maps forever but all the other ones I've seen are based on injection pulse width and not MAP.
Be alert! America needs more lerts.
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Re: Motronic 2.3.2 ignition cut launch control

Postby elaw » Thu Jan 09, 2014 2:59 pm

AngryTaco wrote:It is literally a decision between Stop or GO

No point worrying about stopping if you can't go... :D
Be alert! America needs more lerts.
Eric Law
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'90 80Q with AAN and Megasquirt
'97 Saab 9000 Aero: sold 5/2017, sorely missed
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Re: Motronic 2.3.2 ignition cut launch control

Postby Mcstiff » Thu Jan 09, 2014 4:08 pm

elaw wrote:
vwnut8392 wrote:Here is the same map in a more easily viewable form before the changes are made.
Image

Hey just out of curiosity... are the X-axis values in that table (14.0, 24.0, 34.0 and so on) manifold pressure?

I've been looking for stock 20VT maps forever but all the other ones I've seen are based on injection pulse width and not MAP.


As I read it, x=load (KPA?) and Y=RPM. I'd switch them for the sake of comparison to how VEMS sets the axis.
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Re: Motronic 2.3.2 ignition cut launch control

Postby vwnut8392 » Fri Jan 10, 2014 2:59 pm

AngryTaco wrote:oh if only I could do this on my Mac-11


If you get an N2MB WOT BOX it will work with the older mechanical fuel injection turbo cars.
"The really good drivers got the bugs on the side windows." Walter Röhrl

1984 4000S quattro-AAN swapped
1983 UR coupe quattro
1995 URS6 avant
1992 GTI VR6
1992 GTI G60 X-flow turbo
1986 16V jetta coupe
1985 golf 4 door-AKA the monster golf
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Re: Motronic 2.3.2 ignition cut launch control

Postby vwnut8392 » Fri Jan 10, 2014 3:02 pm

elaw wrote:
vwnut8392 wrote:Here is the same map in a more easily viewable form before the changes are made.
Image

Hey just out of curiosity... are the X-axis values in that table (14.0, 24.0, 34.0 and so on) manifold pressure?

I've been looking for stock 20VT maps forever but all the other ones I've seen are based on injection pulse width and not MAP.


The top scale is load which is actually wrong and obviously the side scale is RPM. i started a thread on S2 forum about modifying motronic 2.3.2 hardware and software a while back that has a ton on info in it. maybe i'll migrate it over to this forum too, it seems it will be much more appreciated here than on S2 forum.
"The really good drivers got the bugs on the side windows." Walter Röhrl

1984 4000S quattro-AAN swapped
1983 UR coupe quattro
1995 URS6 avant
1992 GTI VR6
1992 GTI G60 X-flow turbo
1986 16V jetta coupe
1985 golf 4 door-AKA the monster golf
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Re: Motronic 2.3.2 ignition cut launch control

Postby themagellan » Thu Feb 20, 2014 2:58 am

This is really, really clever stuff :beer:
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Re: Motronic 2.3.2 ignition cut launch control

Postby GTJeff » Thu Apr 10, 2014 3:36 pm

vwnut8392 wrote:
AngryTaco wrote:oh if only I could do this on my Mac-11


If you get an N2MB WOT BOX it will work with the older mechanical fuel injection turbo cars.


Awesome work!
I'm using an Ostrich with a MAC14. Maybe I can take off the exhaust and load up a temporary .bin with similar changes to the timing table (btdc timing = 62-value on the MAC-14) and see if I can get it to hold rpm and boost pressure. I can't actually launch since I don't have two programs installed that I can switch between but maybe I can make that happen too. hmmm...
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Re: Motronic 2.3.2 ignition cut launch control

Postby ffsapher » Sun Aug 31, 2014 2:09 pm

hello. I'm try to do this mod and acctualy i have something like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkyHhQIRK7E

lc can generate about 0.4 b but only on hi rev about 7k rpm, and also i don't have flames form exhale, why?
start from lc is more laggy than without it...
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Re: Motronic 2.3.2 ignition cut launch control

Postby vwnut8392 » Tue Sep 02, 2014 12:11 pm

ffsapher wrote:hello. I'm try to do this mod and acctualy i have something like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkyHhQIRK7E

lc can generate about 0.4 b but only on hi rev about 7k rpm, and also i don't have flames form exhale, why?
start from lc is more laggy than without it...


Im using the N2MB WOTBOX to stall the ignition at the RPM i want along side the ignition cut from the ECU. the reason you have no flames is because you have a stock exhaust. if it would backfire it will most likely blow your exhaust apart and melt down your cats.

This what my muffler looks like after using it, i have 3in from the turbo back with no cat and straight through borla proXS muffler. notice how the case is all puffed out.
Image
"The really good drivers got the bugs on the side windows." Walter Röhrl

1984 4000S quattro-AAN swapped
1983 UR coupe quattro
1995 URS6 avant
1992 GTI VR6
1992 GTI G60 X-flow turbo
1986 16V jetta coupe
1985 golf 4 door-AKA the monster golf
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Re: Motronic 2.3.2 ignition cut launch control

Postby ffsapher » Tue Sep 02, 2014 5:01 pm

so basicly i should change exhaust and done?
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Re: Motronic 2.3.2 ignition cut launch control

Postby vwnut8392 » Mon Sep 15, 2014 1:07 am

to make it backfire really loud with big flames you have to have an N2MB WOTBOX installed too.
"The really good drivers got the bugs on the side windows." Walter Röhrl

1984 4000S quattro-AAN swapped
1983 UR coupe quattro
1995 URS6 avant
1992 GTI VR6
1992 GTI G60 X-flow turbo
1986 16V jetta coupe
1985 golf 4 door-AKA the monster golf
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Re: Motronic 2.3.2 ignition cut launch control

Postby vwnut8392 » Thu Jan 29, 2015 4:54 pm

I added a wiring diagram to the first post that shows how to wire the N2MB WOT BOX in conjunction with the ECU MAP switching.
"The really good drivers got the bugs on the side windows." Walter Röhrl

1984 4000S quattro-AAN swapped
1983 UR coupe quattro
1995 URS6 avant
1992 GTI VR6
1992 GTI G60 X-flow turbo
1986 16V jetta coupe
1985 golf 4 door-AKA the monster golf
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Re: Motronic 2.3.2 ignition cut launch control

Postby KevinRS » Sun Jun 28, 2015 4:33 am

Hey, first of all i want to apologize for may bad english ;) I am from germany and followed you post very interested, here and in the s2-forum.

I now have installed a WOT-Box, but i either generate flames nor boost, just about 0,5bar at around 6000rpm. notice, i got an S2 Avant with RS2 Step and some more around 420hp. K26/27 hyprid, Borla exhaust and decat. just like yours :)

I think i can solder this, but i got some general questions:

- Is it sufficient to replace the socket only for the fuel/ignition part?
- Its an RS2 ECU with 300kpa MAP sensor and Chiptuning.
- Is it possible to read from the old chip, modify this and write to the new Chip?
- Where is the plug located? The photo looks like it is around the ECU? but i dont got such a plug around my ECU (Reminding installation of the WOT box) -> maybe i have to cut into my harness, do you know which PIN at ECU?

Thanks a lot!

Regards Kevin
Last edited by KevinRS on Sun Jun 28, 2015 1:42 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Motronic 2.3.2 ignition cut launch control

Postby KevinRS » Sun Jun 28, 2015 5:59 am

So, i opened my ECU, and what i see is, there is already a solded socket for the fuel/ignition. Isnt it?
I got 2 photos, it must be the chip where's written MOT

EDIT: this chip is an Atmel AT27C512R

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