Motronic 2.3.2 ignition cut launch control

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Re: Motronic 2.3.2 ignition cut launch control

Postby vwnut8392 » Mon Jun 29, 2015 12:50 pm

- Is it sufficient to replace the socket only for the fuel/ignition part?

yes you can replace just the timing/fuel socket.

- Its an RS2 ECU with 300kpa MAP sensor and Chiptuning.

thats perfectly fine but it would be nice to know what version software the ECU is using 8A0 907 551 B or 8A0 907 551 C.

- Is it possible to read from the old chip, modify this and write to the new Chip?

Yes you should be able to read that chip in any standard eeprom programmer. as for the chip itself being a AT27C512R thats a one time pogrammable chip. you need to get an SST27SF512 chip, their electronically erasable chips and very common.

- Where is the plug located? The photo looks like it is around the ECU? but i dont got such a plug around my ECU (Reminding installation of the WOT box) -> maybe i have to cut into my harness, do you know which PIN at ECU?

In the RS2 i have no idea where the plug lives as we never got the RS2 in the USA so i've never got to work with that car personally. the pin in the ECU connector is 39, there should be a gray/yellow wire in that position. this is following the wiring from the AAN but i figure it should be similar if not the same for the RS2. if there is no pin/wire in spot 39 in your motronic connector you can add one yourself by cannibalizing any old 55 pin motronic harness from another audi, BMW, volvo etc.

As for setting up the other ignition map on your chip i can do it for you if you read your current chip and email me the BIN file. i'll set it at the RPM you want it at and correct the checksum on the BIN for you so it doesnt throw fault code for bad eprom and such. than all you have to do is put the new BIN on an SST27SF512 chip, install it and blow some fire. dont forget to put your old chip away in a safe place incase you need it again for some reason. you dont have to touch or modify the boost chip in any way at all to do this.


So, i opened my ECU, and what i see is, there is already a solded socket for the fuel/ignition. Isnt it?
I got 2 photos, it must be the chip where's written MOT

EDIT: this chip is an Atmel AT27C512R


the MOT chip is the one you want to modify.
"The really good drivers got the bugs on the side windows." Walter Röhrl

1984 4000S quattro-AAN swapped
1983 UR coupe quattro
1995 URS6 avant
1992 GTI VR6
1992 GTI G60 X-flow turbo
1986 16V jetta coupe
1985 golf 4 door-AKA the monster golf
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Re: Motronic 2.3.2 ignition cut launch control

Postby KevinRS » Mon Jun 29, 2015 6:15 pm

Okay, thats fine, thanks a lot for your help.
Unfortunately there is no label or something at the ecu case. My idea was, to read the part number with VCDS, but there only stands "T+S-Tuning" in that box where's usally the part number.
Its just for knowlege where the hex offset begins, isnt it?

Okay, i will try it by myself with these two programms. hopefully i will find the right offset because i dont know the right part number. Dont got me wrong, but i got so much ambition to try it first by myself. If it goes wrong, the option is still there, i really appreciate that! :) :ty:
Maybe i will do this on some EPROM and try different RPMs. The SST27SF512 chip is hardly to get in Germany, just found it at ebay, but location Hongkong. And i always got problems with shipping from asia.

What is your favourite EPROM/EEPROM Programmer? Any recommendations?

Best regards
Kevin
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Re: Motronic 2.3.2 ignition cut launch control

Postby vwnut8392 » Mon Jun 29, 2015 8:32 pm

KevinRS wrote:Okay, thats fine, thanks a lot for your help.
Unfortunately there is no label or something at the ecu case. My idea was, to read the part number with VCDS, but there only stands "T+S-Tuning" in that box where's usally the part number.
Its just for knowlege where the hex offset begins, isnt it?

Okay, i will try it by myself with these two programms. hopefully i will find the right offset because i dont know the right part number. Dont got me wrong, but i got so much ambition to try it first by myself. If it goes wrong, the option is still there, i really appreciate that! :) :ty:
Maybe i will do this on some EPROM and try different RPMs. The SST27SF512 chip is hardly to get in Germany, just found it at ebay, but location Hongkong. And i always got problems with shipping from asia.

What is your favourite EPROM/EEPROM Programmer? Any recommendations?

Best regards
Kevin


you can get the software part # from vag com.

I use SST27SF512 eeproms and a the willem GQ4X chip programmer.
"The really good drivers got the bugs on the side windows." Walter Röhrl

1984 4000S quattro-AAN swapped
1983 UR coupe quattro
1995 URS6 avant
1992 GTI VR6
1992 GTI G60 X-flow turbo
1986 16V jetta coupe
1985 golf 4 door-AKA the monster golf
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Re: Motronic 2.3.2 ignition cut launch control

Postby KevinRS » Tue Jun 30, 2015 2:22 am

Okay. Mhm i used VAG COM / VCDS.
Have a look:
IMG_20150628_164401-1024x768.jpg
IMG_20150628_164401-1024x768.jpg (166.15 KiB) Viewed 7669 times
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Re: Motronic 2.3.2 ignition cut launch control

Postby vwnut8392 » Wed Jul 01, 2015 11:36 am

KevinRS wrote:Okay. Mhm i used VAG COM / VCDS.
Have a look:
The attachment IMG_20150628_164401-1024x768.jpg is no longer available

They changed the info string that had the software part # in it. well the only other way to tell if its 551B or 551C is if it has the string of code for the immobilizer in it. the 551C will have immo code and the 551B wont have it.
Attachments
offset rs2.JPG
picture of the immo code. 551B top and 551C bottom.
offset rs2.JPG (383.24 KiB) Viewed 7648 times
"The really good drivers got the bugs on the side windows." Walter Röhrl

1984 4000S quattro-AAN swapped
1983 UR coupe quattro
1995 URS6 avant
1992 GTI VR6
1992 GTI G60 X-flow turbo
1986 16V jetta coupe
1985 golf 4 door-AKA the monster golf
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Re: Motronic 2.3.2 ignition cut launch control

Postby KevinRS » Wed Jul 01, 2015 4:21 pm

Okay thanks a lot. My chip reader is on the way. I got an ECU for immobilizer. He's a photo:

IMG_20150701_225711-1024x768.jpg
IMG_20150701_225711-1024x768.jpg (138.49 KiB) Viewed 7646 times


With connected engine ecu starting would be allowed. But with disconnected engine ecu starting would also be allowed.
So i think the engine ecu doesnt play a role for starting, only the car-keys. In that case i could use every fitting ECU without breaking-in the ecu to the immo.
But maybe its different because ist not the original ECU and immo was disabled/not used in this ECU.

Have to wait for the chip programmer to know for sure.
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Re: Motronic 2.3.2 ignition cut launch control

Postby KevinRS » Fri Jul 03, 2015 4:00 pm

So, programmer has been delivered today. Now i have read the chip.
Here is an image of Offset 00008605, i dont know what to say about the immo. Offset 0000A610 is empty.

S2 01.JPG
S2 01.JPG (159.9 KiB) Viewed 7631 times


So i opend the bin file with winOLS. It found a lot of 16x16maps, but none of them begins at any Offset you have written in Post 2.
WinOLS detected AUDI S2 ECU. Dont know if its correct.

EDIT:
MOT AUDI S2 428BHP.rar
(23.15 KiB) Downloaded 188 times
- > Added my MOT BIN-File, maybe you can find out
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Re: Motronic 2.3.2 ignition cut launch control

Postby KevinRS » Fri Jul 03, 2015 6:08 pm

I downloaded your RS2 File 551B and compared it with mine, seems to be the much same:

Right is my BIN and left is your RS2

S2 02.JPG
S2 02.JPG (304.4 KiB) Viewed 7630 times

S2 03.JPG
S2 03.JPG (304.41 KiB) Viewed 7630 times


Please read the BIN with TunerPro. Ignition seems to be the same as OEM RS2. isnt it?
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Re: Motronic 2.3.2 ignition cut launch control

Postby vwnut8392 » Fri Jul 03, 2015 9:47 pm

its an RS2 551B file. there's some pretty decent changes in that BIN. they dont edit all ignition maps, just the main map.
"The really good drivers got the bugs on the side windows." Walter Röhrl

1984 4000S quattro-AAN swapped
1983 UR coupe quattro
1995 URS6 avant
1992 GTI VR6
1992 GTI G60 X-flow turbo
1986 16V jetta coupe
1985 golf 4 door-AKA the monster golf
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Re: Motronic 2.3.2 ignition cut launch control

Postby KevinRS » Sat Jul 04, 2015 1:21 am

Yeah i also thought so, the other ignition maps are really late in timing. But which which map is the map i need. Simply i can copy the driving map and insert this to the other maps and and correct the ignition at certain RPM.
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Re: Motronic 2.3.2 ignition cut launch control

Postby KevinRS » Sat Jul 04, 2015 5:01 pm

Unfortunately the letter carriers of DHL currently striking in Germany, so my Chips are left behind indefinitely.
I found a seller of an EEPROM in the next bigger city. Now my next question: is that chip suitable?

Its an ATMEGA8L-8PU
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Re: Motronic 2.3.2 ignition cut launch control

Postby vwnut8392 » Sat Jul 04, 2015 10:31 pm

doesnt seem like it. i only ever used SST27SF512 or atmel 27C512R. i just reread and realized the chip in the ECU is electronically erasable. if you dont mind losing not having a backup of your tune than you can erase the chip you have.
"The really good drivers got the bugs on the side windows." Walter Röhrl

1984 4000S quattro-AAN swapped
1983 UR coupe quattro
1995 URS6 avant
1992 GTI VR6
1992 GTI G60 X-flow turbo
1986 16V jetta coupe
1985 golf 4 door-AKA the monster golf
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Re: Motronic 2.3.2 ignition cut launch control

Postby KevinRS » Sun Jul 05, 2015 5:41 am

Why do think these Chip (ATMEGA8L-8PU) isnt suitable?

What? Really? The Atmel 27C512R ist e-erasable? I just searched for the Datasheet of the Atmel 27C512R and there is written the chip is only one time programmable.

S2 04.JPG
S2 04.JPG (99.14 KiB) Viewed 7575 times
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Re: Motronic 2.3.2 ignition cut launch control

Postby vwnut8392 » Sun Jul 05, 2015 12:27 pm

thats what i originally thought. the SST27SF512 is your only hope or to find more one time programmable chips.
"The really good drivers got the bugs on the side windows." Walter Röhrl

1984 4000S quattro-AAN swapped
1983 UR coupe quattro
1995 URS6 avant
1992 GTI VR6
1992 GTI G60 X-flow turbo
1986 16V jetta coupe
1985 golf 4 door-AKA the monster golf
User avatar
vwnut8392
 
Posts: 331
Joined: Aug 12, 2013
Location: PA

Re: Motronic 2.3.2 ignition cut launch control

Postby martin6 » Tue Jul 07, 2015 5:31 am

Very interesting find vwnut8392, thank you very much for sharing your knowledge!

@KevinRS: Add http://www.chip-service.de to your favorites.
Günter Jäger has a good range of products for the older ECUs.
I bought some uv-erasable M27C256B and M87C257 ones and a UV eraser station too, to play around with the Audi ECUs.
Quick checkout and delivery, very friendly owner.
Additionally, the shop has a flash EEPROM AM28F512-150PC, which could also work in this ECU, I'll give that also a try.
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Re: Motronic 2.3.2 ignition cut launch control

Postby KevinRS » Tue Jul 07, 2015 2:30 pm

Thanks a lot it works very well :)

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Re: Motronic 2.3.2 ignition cut launch control

Postby vwnut8392 » Wed Jul 08, 2015 2:09 am

Be careful with it because it could do this to your muffler. this abused muffler is barely a year old :lol:. good job though kevin! now lets see a video of the car launching on it!
Attachments
11215174_10152914709001771_2792372645219477617_n.jpg
11215174_10152914709001771_2792372645219477617_n.jpg (89.41 KiB) Viewed 7537 times
11219713_10152914709131771_1537024364913347947_n.jpg
11219713_10152914709131771_1537024364913347947_n.jpg (53.95 KiB) Viewed 7537 times
"The really good drivers got the bugs on the side windows." Walter Röhrl

1984 4000S quattro-AAN swapped
1983 UR coupe quattro
1995 URS6 avant
1992 GTI VR6
1992 GTI G60 X-flow turbo
1986 16V jetta coupe
1985 golf 4 door-AKA the monster golf
User avatar
vwnut8392
 
Posts: 331
Joined: Aug 12, 2013
Location: PA

Re: Motronic 2.3.2 ignition cut launch control

Postby KevinRS » Sun Jul 12, 2015 5:01 pm

KevinRS
 
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Re: Motronic 2.3.2 ignition cut launch control

Postby martin6 » Tue Jul 21, 2015 1:02 am

At the moment, I'm doing this mod (Launch Control with ECU Switch) to a friend's 551AA ECU too.
What I understand now is that the car will not throw flames or bang, as long as there is no wotbox installed (which I will not do).

Just for curiousity:
-Why isn't it enough to fit the wotbox without the ECU mod, why wotbox AND ECU mod?
This combination doesn't make sense to me.

-Will the car generate boost at 4500rpm with the ECU mod and without wotbox?

The car has OE turbocharger, 3" exhaust with 100cell motorsports metal catalytic converter - hopefully this will hold :-)

@KevinRS thanks for your detailed resistor info, ECU is OK :-)
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Re: Motronic 2.3.2 ignition cut launch control

Postby martin6 » Tue Jul 21, 2015 1:00 pm

Tested today, but no luck.
I did the change in the map at 0x9594 (ECU is a 8A0 907 551AA with 8A0 907 551B software).
When giving ground to the mentioned pin on the coding plug (or ECU pin 39, double-checked that),
the car obviously does not switch to the launch control map, and revs freely to ~7000.

The software is not OE RS2 btw, it's a modified chip, checksum is OK too (I let WinOLS do the job)

Any ideas, what the reason for this could be?
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Re: Motronic 2.3.2 ignition cut launch control

Postby KevinRS » Wed Jul 22, 2015 9:09 am

Okay. No it will not generate boost without wotbox. Maybe with a really hot manifold. Important is the late ignition.
Okay, did you copied your driving map to this map (beginning at offset 9594) and then corrected the ignition timing at certain RPM?
KevinRS
 
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Re: Motronic 2.3.2 ignition cut launch control

Postby martin6 » Wed Jul 22, 2015 4:40 pm

Yes, my map looks like this:
launch_control1.jpg
launch_control1.jpg (74.74 KiB) Viewed 7207 times


As you can see, my map starts at 9594, and is zeroed from 9634 to 9693.

Here the same map, with rpm factor:
launch_control2.jpg
launch_control2.jpg (56.41 KiB) Viewed 7207 times


Can you confirm that 551B "launch control map" is the 9594?
Maybe this is the wrong map and therefore it doesn't get active with Pin 39 to ground?
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Re: Motronic 2.3.2 ignition cut launch control

Postby KevinRS » Fri Jul 24, 2015 3:33 pm

I write you a message, in german :)
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Re: Motronic 2.3.2 ignition cut launch control

Postby KevinRS » Sun Jul 26, 2015 7:47 am

@vwnut8392:
I got another question. Whats about the rev limiter. If i want to set the rev limiter to 7500rpm, no Problem with the wot box.
But i want the ignition to be late @ 7500rpm, just like the launch control.
But my table in tunerproRT ends at 7000rpm, what could i do?

Regards kevin
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Re: Motronic 2.3.2 ignition cut launch control

Postby vwnut8392 » Thu Jul 30, 2015 1:41 pm

the rev limiter in the wot box is useless to you, its not enabled when run in the global setting. what i think your getting at is you want an ignition cut rev limiter which wont happen unless you write custom code to the ecu to make it do so instead of interrupting the injector pulse. this is far more complicated than what i've done but i have looked into it.
"The really good drivers got the bugs on the side windows." Walter Röhrl

1984 4000S quattro-AAN swapped
1983 UR coupe quattro
1995 URS6 avant
1992 GTI VR6
1992 GTI G60 X-flow turbo
1986 16V jetta coupe
1985 golf 4 door-AKA the monster golf
User avatar
vwnut8392
 
Posts: 331
Joined: Aug 12, 2013
Location: PA

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