The Project Pad

Got a few things done this weekend.

Was able to shave these fellas down to make room for the ABZ intake manifold:


Also shaved down the upper oil pan to keep it from hitting the subframe when it comes time. (and changed the gaskets)
Not the prettiest job, but it will work.



Also dealt with the crank bushing. I was uncertain as to why I needed the pilot bearing adapter at first but now it seems clear what it does. It pushes the pilot bearing 14mm rearward. I am guessing the 016 has a slightly longer shaft. I have also read that I will need to machine a longer slave cylinder pushrod - is that so?

Anyway, to get the bushing out of the crankshaft I finally got the old grease and socket trick to work. I had tried and failed at this when I did my Cabriolet manual swap and was failing here too until I introduced a little strip of silicone rescue tape. For those who may not know this trick, you first fill the blind hole in the end of the crankshaft where the bushing site with grease. Them you take a socket (17mm in this case) that just barely fits inside the bushing and a socket extension on that socket (backwards) The idea is that by ramming the socket into the grease in the blind hole the hydraulic pressure will force the bushing out. I kept having it ooze out the little voids where the socket and extension met. I used a square of red silicone rescue tape in between the two and it popped it out in about 4 hits.




Ta Dah!

Here are the 034 Pilot Bearing adapter and the bushing I got out of the crankshaft. As I mentioned before, the only difference is that the 034 version is 14mm deeper on the end.

count the flywheel teeth. it needs to be divisible by 8 (stock is 136 on the factory v8 flywheels, 135 for the inline 5's for the same reason, divisible by 5). if it is, vems can trigger off it. you wont need cam sync, vems can be configured wasted spark on this engine.

Just verified, 136 it is! That sounds like good news. So I won't need a trigger wheel other than this?

Grillage wrote:Just verified, 136 it is! That sounds like good news. So I won't need a trigger wheel other than this?

well. ideal would be if you had a cam sync, but yes it will work with just those two signals (reference pin and flywheel teeth).

Full disclosure: the modern auditrigger vems setups use the cam sensor for more than just cam sync. its tied to the reference pin signal to 'filter' the input so that the ecu is only looking for the pin in the small window of the cam sensor. this tends to filter out some of the noise issues that were present with the old vems auditrigger setups from when they first started doing this.

so, long answer is yes it will work, but you should be prepared to get some high rpm trigger errors that may not be resolvable without a cam sync.

Marc wrote:

Grillage wrote:Just verified, 136 it is! That sounds like good news. So I won't need a trigger wheel other than this?

well. ideal would be if you had a cam sync, but yes it will work with just those two signals (reference pin and flywheel teeth).

Full disclosure: the modern auditrigger vems setups use the cam sensor for more than just cam sync. its tied to the reference pin signal to 'filter' the input so that the ecu is only looking for the pin in the small window of the cam sensor. this tends to filter out some of the noise issues that were present with the old vems auditrigger setups from when they first started doing this.

so, long answer is yes it will work, but you should be prepared to get some high rpm trigger errors that may not be resolvable without a cam sync.

That all makes sense. I can grab the cam sensor from an A8 along with the exhaust cams and block offs. That is a much easier solution than trying to machine a tone ring into the fidanza and drilling holes into the 01A for the sensor.

So next step is to get the flywheel and clutch installed (just ordered a Southbend kit), get the motor in place and figure out how the hell I'm going to make motor mount brackets.

Just a heads up on that cam sensor for the abz, there are 2 versions of the trigger wheel I believe. The early ones like I have on my 95 engine have a single window, and the later ones, I don't know from when have 4 oddly spaced windows. From memory I have looked on etka and I think a 1.8t wheel has 1 window and will work. This is only of info of course if vems can only handle 1 trigger per 2 revs for cam sync, but that's how it is on my IIc.

kieron_32v wrote:Just a heads up on that cam sensor for the abz, there are 2 versions of the trigger wheel I believe. The early ones like I have on my 95 engine have a single window, and the later ones, I don't know from when have 4 oddly spaced windows. From memory I have looked on etka and I think a 1.8t wheel has 1 window and will work. This is only of info of course if vems can only handle 1 trigger per 2 revs for cam sync, but that's how it is on my IIc.

right, I should have mentioned that. you are looking for the single window variety. furthermore, for the filtering I'm describing to work the reference pin has to fall within the opening of the cam sensor window.

Got it. There is a 97 A8 in my local yard and I already yanked the sensor itself but forgot my gear puller so I couldn't get the cogs off the exhaust cams.
I'll go back this weekend and grab them.

As for the syncing of the pin and the window, worst case scenario if they don't line up I can just move the pin right? It's not so much that the pin is in a specific place - more that I know where it is in relation to TDC right?

I got to the junkyard today and managed to grab the ABZ Drivers side Exhaust Cam and the sensor from that side...
Pics...



Is this the right version for the application we've been talking about?

Also, does anyone know if I need the ABZ Passenger's side cam too? the junkyard car was in a Passengers Side front end collision and it is going to be really difficult to get to the timing belt cover to remove. The size of the cams on that side are the same (I got the block off plates from that side and they fit perfectly).

Anyone know if the cams are the same as far as timing? I'd love to not have to mess with that side.

Also, got a bunch of stuff ordered and some has arrived. The Southbend Stage 2 has arrived and once the Autohaus AZ order shows up I'll be able to install flywheel and clutch and get the engine in there. then I'll start to mock up engine mounts with cardboard or balsa wood or something.

I'm afraid not, that's the weird multi window one same as a 1.8t. The one I have is a solid disc with one slot about 10mm wide. Cam timing should be the same as any other vag engine of the era. Dots on cam gears facing each other across flats old head surface. Do you have. the cam locking fixtures? 3341 iirc.

How about this one from the 2.7T. Look closer to correct?


http://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-C5_A6-Qua ... /ES284084/
I wonder if it's the same size

I'm going with yes - same size. According to ETKA the 2.7T and the A8 use the same hall sensor - part # 058905161B so I can only assume the impulse rotors would be the same size regardless of the amount of windows it has.

Now, does anyone know about the passenger exhaust cam and whether it's the same between the V8 and the A8? (ABH and ABZ)

for future posterity, the A8 piece is part # 077 905 234 - the 2.7T is 078 905 234 F

and no, I don't have the timing tools. I'll need to get a hold of a set to do the belt and all now that I'm moving cams around. I was hoping to get the car running first since I really don't know what the hell I'm doing. oh well!

Looks like the timing is different...



To the Junkyard!

Did a little test fitting this morning.

It's clear that I need to cut out the ABS bracket. the Battery tray is okay now but the intake plumbing will make it need to go away too.





Starting to see the path toward engine mounts but I really need to put the exhaust manifolds on to see how it will really work.



The biggest concern I have is that there are bolts that sit right on the subframe...




Anyone have any been there done that advice on the subframe rubbing?

I'd def modify the sub frame a bit.

drill holes in the subframe for that bolt head to sink down into? will that give you clearance??

I just ground the bolt heads away at an angle until they cleared.

You are correct about the ABS bracket- it will need to be cut off. The battery tray can either be trimmed to fit the intake (if you have a battery cover you can trim it to fit which gives you a nice spot for an ecu, fan controller, etc) or take it completely off. I opted for trimming the inside corner off and using the space to hide my fan controller.

As for the time/space conflict on the subframe, I raised the motor up just a bit to give them some breathing room.

Got the single window reluctor in the mail today from rockauto. It fits!

Does the ABH not have a camshaft trigger stock? Mine does...I'm not using it though, perhaps it was added at sometime, I don't know.

I am so stupid. You're right. There is a cam sensor inside the passengers side distributor. I sold mine about 4 months ago and totally forgot about it. That is certainly a simpler solution than replacing camshafts ssuming it will fit with the airbox in there,

battery box removed, ABS Bracket cut out and holes drilled for the bolts



Fits better but still need to shave the oil pan better

Grillage wrote:I am so stupid. You're right. There is a cam sensor inside the passengers side distributor. I sold mine about 4 months ago and totally forgot about it. That is certainly a simpler solution than replacing camshafts ssuming it will fit with the airbox in there,

The one that's on mine is just like the ABZ one above...and is seperate from the distributor cover plates that I have on there.

Really? can you take a pic?

Grillage wrote:Really? can you take a pic?

Yeah, I'll get one. I've never tried to use it, so maybe it's just on there and doesn't even have the cam gear for it.