The Project Pad

Perfect description of the TDI crowd for the most part. Ever been to a meet? 1/10 guys won't make you want to leave, lol

dana wrote:

PRA4WX wrote:RACE 520's?! I approve! They've worked out fantastically for me! Nice work!

they seem like a good choice, plenty of fuel for any amount of reasonable mods without getting crazy (read waaay to expensive). Trying to get someone to write a tune for this car is like pulling teeth. Its pissing me off so bad, Ive tried all the major tuners. Kerma was a straight dickhead, malone stopped responding, jeff at rocketchip was encouraging and liked the project but said the AHU cant take over 150hp (which i do NOT believe, and he never got back to me after talking on the phone), mike at TDtuning said he could and would do it, but takes 2 months to get back to me. I think MR Tuning in Quebec is going to do it, but still waiting to hear if hes burned the chips yet.

Makes me really annoyed that there isnt a decent and affordable self tuning option for these.

PRY4SNO wrote:This thread needs videos!

here you go! here it is running like a champ!
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ov-Wt5XNfX8[/youtube]

Wow! I'm surprised you've had that much difficulty getting a tune. I have OFTEN wished a viable standalone existed-WHY DOESN'T ONE EXIST?!? I had my custom tuning done by Mark. He had always been very available for me. I don't know what his business looks like now, but i do think he's pretty busy based on what i have seen. Personally, i think 150 isn't even making the AHU work hard. I know of guys who are showing dyno's for north of 200 on stock bottom ends. Of course you know it's the torque that kills em anyway. I've never dyno'd but have fuel for more than 150 and have for more than 3 years on what is still a stock bottom end w/o issue.

Fuel quantity, fuel injection timing, boost. Done (not really but you know what I mean). Standalone would be so great on a TDI.

I think i am having a lot of trouble because of the holset turbo. They dont know what it is, and they hear 'holset' and think "huge". I've sent them the specs on it, but I dont think they have taken to time to look at them. The reality is, this turbo is right in the sweet spot with a 1.9TDI. Others that have run them in europe and a couple in the US are loving them and reporting full boost by 2600rpm. Obviously a vnt is better, but I am not a mad man for trying to put on on a TDI. There are dudes making 200whp in 1.6 diesels with this turbo and a stock bottom end.

I think these guys hear what my setup is and think im just some punkass who is trying to build something that is out of my league with a giant turbo and show all the haters. The reality is my build is much better planned and executed than anything I've built before, and my past cars have all been successful. From their standpoint, I think they imagine me ringing their phones off the hook trying to get a retune because my setup wont work. I am confident it will work, im sure there will be tweaks, but it will work well.

As far as 150 being no problem for the AHU, I totally agree. I have no idea what Jeff was getting at. At first he told me the AHU has weaker pistons, but I informed him that the AHU has the better pistons (same as ALH). He still claimed that I shouldnt go over 150. There are plenty of dudes in europe pushing near 200whp with ALH/AHU/AGR bottom ends and even the 10mm pump.

Anyways enough ranting, I think Martin at MR Tuning will write me a tune and help me get it dialed, I could even drive to him since he is not super far away.

As far as standalone, I have looked into the hardware and software to write chips. Its possible, but the learning curve is steep and the cost is prohibitive unless I want to get into it as a business (which I do not).

I think the flashable ECU's are more easily self tuned. I haven't looked too much into that, but I may go there if this shit keeps up.

I'm not building this sweet car, fully restored, awesome turbo setup and have it dead in the water because no one can take the hour to write me a tune.

chaloux wrote:Fuel quantity, fuel injection timing, boost. Done (not really but you know what I mean). Standalone would be so great on a TDI.

So true man, there isnt that much too it. I know i could tune it myself. TDI crowd is not that cool (aside from a few of you )

just for shits, and because im in an annoyed mood im posting this conversation with one of the tuners.

Just to clarify, I had posted a thread on TDI Club looking for someone to write me a tune. I explicitly explained what I was looking for and what my setup was. I was honestly asking if there was someone out there interested in taking hundreds of my dollars in exchange for a tune. This is a service that all of the major tuners list on their websites, but I was having trouble getting any call backs, so I resorted to a forum post to see if there were other tuners out there that I was missing.

This particular tuner responded IN MY THREAD saying "why havent you contacted me? My contact info is plastered all over this site" His post has since vanished from the thread since I called him out on it in the email chain.

So here is the chain with me contracting him after he flamed me for not contracting him!

Good Morning,


I had sent you a PM on TDI club about my audi 90 with an AHU and the holset he211w turbo. I Have the engine and turbo in the car, but have not purchased injectors. It is running the 10mm injection pump from the AHU.


Do you have a recommendation for injectors? I was thinking race 520 injectors would be right, but am open to other options. You said this would not be a combination for a low smoke setup. Does that mean this would be an excessively smokey setup? I don't mind some smoke when I get on it, but this is my daily car I put 30,000 miles on a year, so i would prefer not to roal coal everywhere I go.


I would appreciate you recommendations since I am fairly new to TDI tuning.


Thank you,

-Dana

R520 will not be smoke free. You will roll coal especially with AHU injection pump. PP764 or DLC 764 might be better
Never worked with that turbo

Would you be able to provide me with a tune for pp764 injectors, the he211 turbo (similar to a gt2052, but a bit larger), MAF and EGR deleted?


Thank you,

-Dana

I probably would be able to tune it, but sadly I just can't afford the time to entertain one-off science experiments on old cars anymore.

You will experience lag because that turbo is probably far too big for your application, and there will be smoke until the turbo spools.
You are probably better off finding someone who has successfully tuned a wastegate gt22 on ahu but I don't know of any. The cars that are "featured" on the forums I have driven some of them and despite the high praise and wall of pictures, still drive like ass even after 20-30 retunes. I have never had to retune that many times and I don't plan to, but it's essentially an alpha test and I already have enough R&D projects .

My recommendation is to use a smaller turbo. The #1 mistake is using a turbo that is too big, because it "just has to be better if it's bigger" or trying to "blaze new trails" or "do what everyone says can't be done" or "prove the man wrong" or "I'll show them" or some such. But I've been there done that, and even though I've never worked with that particular turbo, 15 years of working with AHU with garrett/KKK turbos both VNT and wastegate, gives me a pretty good idea what to expect.

I would be happy to work with you in a project that has a higher likelihood of success to my standards, but I'm afraid I have to decline this one in it's current form.

Thanks for your interest

Ok, well I appreciate you spending time to give your opinion. I'm not sure why you replied to my original thread on TDIclub asking for tuner suggestions if you weren't interested. My intent definitely wasn't to waste your time, sorry about that.


Again, thanks for the input.


-Dana

Yeah sorry about that, I must have missed the part about which turbo you were planning to use.
Let me know if you change your mind and would like my advice on a setup with a higher likelihood of success.
We can definitely help you withe the injectors and other parts.
Thanks

Yea, like I'm going to buy my hardware from you after that conversation.

Meanwhile, this dude has the same turbo in an IDI 1.9 with mechanical pump and a 4800lb vanagon. This is his reaction after putting this turbo in and running it.

WOW< WOW< WOW!!!
Wish I could shake hands with Alcaid and everyone who has helped with the decision to go for for the Holset - this is just what I was hoping for!
Spools as quick (or quicker) than the K-14 and really makes some serious CFM. I used to cruse at 15 psi, now it sits at 7 ;D ;D. EGT's hit 1200 once with the engine cold and tromping on it getting on the freeway. Once it warmed up, EGT's stayed below 950F - even when I pushed it to 20 PSI. The power delivery is very smooth which my transmission appreciates I'm sure. The K-14 was punchy - this is just pure, consistent power.

I was going to ask about the turbo. Which/what manifold is that? I think i've seen a fleabay option that looks something like that. I have to decide what i'm going to do for turbo moving forward.....i have a eurovan tdi swap in the beginning stages and the 914 as well. Current motor has a GTB2260VK......i like the idea of a Holset.....i like cheap. Doesn't look like that combo wilou for between the motor and the firewall of the eurovan.

Nice work. I haven't kept up to speed hear these last couple years but this is a project i dig!

I got the manifold from Emil (aka Nitec). It is mexico made, there are these on ebay too, but often the t25 flange is drilled for t25 but has a t3 hole so it is useless. It could be pretty easily adapted to an AHU manifold using an adapter plate. I chose to use this manifold because it should flow better and I have the room for it.

It doesn't have the same rods, the cam profile is not the same, and the ahu pump doesn't provide as much fuel as the alh.

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Come to 40's may 7th, I'll get Jeff to burn you a chip. Dudes claiming huge hp on ahu's read 150+ are not running stock rods....Jeff knows his shit, tuning an unknown turbo remotely is going to be a bitch....

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scubagli wrote:It doesn't have the same rods, the cam profile is not the same, and the ahu pump doesn't provide as much fuel as the alh.

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None of which means it's 150hp limited.

You mean Jeff as in Rocketchip Jeff? He's great in person. Best thing is to go to a meet that he's attending

I think he is located right down the road from me. A lot of the guys around here use his tunes.

Or live right down the road from him lol

chaloux wrote:You mean Jeff as in Rocketchip Jeff? He's great in person. Best thing is to go to a meet that he's attending

Yes, he usually comes to 40's, I'll give him a call and confirm and let you know Dana.

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that would be cool. He seemed very knowledgeable and interested in the project, but never got back to me after talking to him. I agree, having it tuned in person would be ideal. Damn I wish i could do the tuning myself. That would be fun and convenient.

He's busy as fuck and I've never had him reply to anything I've sent, lol. Imagine 100x as many people Hank has sending him emails with stupid questions (not saying yours are) about tunes. Good luck responding to anything as a one man show.

But if you see him at a meet he's super personable, generous with time and information, helpful, and cool to hang with. And he'll tune you

He came out for a ride in the A6 AEL when I had him tune it.

There was a couple things that Jeff said that threw me off
-the AHU cant really go over 150 hp. I think he might be confusing it with the 1z which has shitty pistons
-he also said race520 injectors were shit and would make the car run badly
-he also said using the MAF was the only way to go

Other tuners I've talked to have said literally the opposite about all those. Everyone else recommended race 520 injectors and thought the AHU was fine to 200bhp. Also the stock MAF is totally saturated at airflows anywhere near 200bhp.

I'm sure he knows his shit, its just funny that everyone has completely conflicting opinions. I suppose the old saying "there is more than one way to skin a cat" comes into play.

I just want to skin my own cat.

Yeah that's odd. I thought there were two versions of the race 520s. Maybe?

there are, and the 7 holes are supposed to suck, but the 5 holes (what I got) are pretty well loved for levels of tune from stock turbos up to pretty big.

dana wrote:There was a couple things that Jeff said that threw me off
-the AHU cant really go over 150 hp. I think he might be confusing it with the 1z which has shitty pistons
-he also said race520 injectors were shit and would make the car run badly
-he also said using the MAF was the only way to go

Other tuners I've talked to have said literally the opposite about all those. Everyone else recommended race 520 injectors and thought the AHU was fine to 200bhp. Also the stock MAF is totally saturated at airflows anywhere near 200bhp.

I'm sure he knows his shit, its just funny that everyone has completely conflicting opinions. I suppose the old saying "there is more than one way to skin a cat" comes into play.

I just want to skin my own cat.

Yes, the piston's (in some at very least) 1Z's are different. But let's be frank, even at that there are plenty of examples of 150hp + out there (mine included) 1Z's that have had no problems at those levels. I do realize a tuner's desire to be conservative and protect his reputation may also be at play. I think the varying assemblies in the AHU's and 1Z's maybe part of the caution around those motors. Again i'll return to-WHY NO COST EFFECTIVE STANDALONE?!?

Alh ecu is basically standalone, the simple answer is there's no market.

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I don't buy it. There's a substantial diesel market overseas. Maybe one of the most ubiquitous engines in the passenger car world is a 4 cyl diesel. Now i get that there may not be as many who are interested in tuning/playing with a small displacement diesel. Where's the standalone software for the tuning of the "alh ecu?"

There are options, chiptuning.org is an interesting source. Its just a pretty big undertaking an a pretty big PITA to really get into it and understand it. Doesn't seem worth it unless you plan on making it a business.

I think there is a lot more tuning options in places like finland and norway etc. There are dudes doing all kinds of crazy shit with stock engines and big turbos with self tuning. They do lots of things "you cant do" with a TDI. I don't want anything crazy like that, just a decent tune and somewhere over 150hp.

AND 40+ mpg AND quattro AND a stickshift.

Geez.