B3 90Q 07k

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Re: B3 90Q 07k

Postby PRY4SNO » Fri Mar 05, 2021 6:04 pm

Was it the same manufacturer? I could see tolerances being +/- by that amount in the casing/housing just by virtue of different tooling.

Shave the rotor... you know, less rotating mass ;)
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Re: B3 90Q 07k

Postby mrdeye » Thu Mar 11, 2021 12:02 am

Well done!! :thumbsup: :beer:
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Re: B3 90Q 07k

Postby [sTeeWie] » Thu Mar 11, 2021 11:41 am

A very interesting project. The current 5 cylinder turbo engines are really good :)
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B3 90Q 07k

Postby Afterthought » Sun Mar 14, 2021 2:39 am

Been working on this thing every chance I’ve had . Due to the pool of oil under the bell housing I decided I needed to fix this before I trashed the clutch .
Having too many oil leaks was driving me nuts .

This time i sort of meticulously sealed everything step by step one cover at a time over the course of a few days, rolling it into the bathroom in the shop overnight with a space heater to cure the rtv between each step .

Reworked the shift linkage (hopefully one last time) it was just ever so slightly rubbing on the tunnel in one spot making a terrible noise .

I have two 01E trans (both GBE) and I installed my second one . It’s just low mileage better shape .

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Small notch in the tunnel where the linkage was hitting
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Replaced a bunch of little things ...
Resealed upper and lower timing cover
Sealed pan
New rear main seal
New clutch slave cylinder
New pilot bearing
Resealed valve cover
Replaced fuel pump with DW350
New fuel filter
New 75W90 gear oil in trans
Cut welded repositioned coolant pipes
Reworked shift linkage

And she’s back !
Just need to adjust the shift linkage so I can get reverse .
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Re: B3 90Q 07k

Postby varia » Mon Mar 15, 2021 5:56 pm

well done! now let it rip
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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Re: B3 90Q 07k

Postby Afterthought » Mon Mar 15, 2021 8:20 pm

varia wrote:well done! now let it rip

That’s the plan . But I need some professional tuning work first, once I have the tune worked out to where I can trust it more than something I did myself it will be time to put this thing through some abuse .
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Re: B3 90Q 07k

Postby varia » Mon Mar 15, 2021 11:27 pm

its easy! Sam, AMD is close to you.
ok, not far :)
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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B3 90Q 07k

Postby Afterthought » Fri Mar 19, 2021 5:15 pm

Been out driving this thing a little the past few nights .
I repinned with proper connector and enabled the vvt.
I am trying to be super careful with everything and take my time on this . Just drive it enough to work out all the stupid bugs so it can be properly tuned without issues coming up .

So far these are the few things I am working on .

First: I have a small oil leak , either coming from the sandwich plate or the oil filter block , will have to investigate . Don’t have time now but next week I’ll fix it.

Second , the boost control :

With a WGDC % of 0 , I can get still the boost up to 200 kpa or above if I stay on it .
In a log it kind of looks like it peaked there around 200 kpa and 5300 rpm or so but I didn’t see how far it would go as I’m trying to be careful . The car really wants to come awake after 5.5k or so I didn’t take it there yet as I need the boost to be under control first .

First I put in a weaker spring (weakest one that comes with the WG = “.3 bar “ +/-.
For now I’ll run a pressure only line to the bottom of the wastegate , take the N75 out of the equation and see what my boost is . If it’s still high then I have an issue with the wastegate sizing but I hope that’s not the case . I really paid attention to the sizing, placement when I put it together .

Assuming that test goes well, I’ll get the wastegate hooked up, thinking of doing it differently than I usually do . I typically run air to the bottom of the WG with some heavy springs ... this engine flows so much on a 7163 I’m thinking I will run a pretty weak WG spring to start . Dedicated Pressure only line to bottom chamber, signal line to boost solenoid and then to top chamber (or vent)
The only thing that complicates this is that the boost valve I have (EFR boost valve) is Open at 0% DC / unplugged , and closed at 100% DC. So I think it will work but I’d have to invert the duty cycle for it to make sense . With this setup at maximum pressure to top chamber I would be equalizing the pressure between the upper and lower chamber which I think should yield about 2x spring pressure .
I don’t know maybe that’s not right . I’ll have to very carefully try it , but If it doesn’t work well that way I can also switch to a Mac 4-port solenoid
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Third issue, in short is I think I have the timing way too low .
I have the car running around 1.0 lambda on cruise and light throttle dropping down toward 0.82 as boost increases. I’m
Noticing hotter temps than I expected in my EGTs in part throttle little-to-no boost situations (say 85-110kpa ish)
I pulled the plugs last night and they look odd to me , and I think that is possibly because I actually took the timing back too far in an effort to be conservative .
These plugs only have about 25 miles on them .
Stock plug for this engine is PZFR5Q-11 and I dropped down to an NGK BKR7E before starting all this .
I need to see if I can find some knock headphones or something
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I’m also thinking soon about trying to put together a W/M injection kit . It looks like howerton isn’t doing the aquamist kits anymore but I’m sure there’s someone out there still doing a good kit
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Re: B3 90Q 07k

Postby Afterthought » Mon Mar 22, 2021 10:43 pm

I’ve done a number of things to get the boost as low as I can possibly get it .
First I upsized the signal line from compressor housing to the bottom of the wastegate with new fittings so the ID of each fitting is at least about 4.5mm or larger . Just to ensure that none of those were causing any restriction. The original ones I had used were pretty small.
I put the lowest wastegate spring in .
I pulled the wastegate off and checked it’s function , checked the pipe downstream of it is free if any obstruction.
Also pulled the turbo off and used silicone plugs to plug the runners and ported the wastegate feed tube out where it meets the collector .

Left is old fitting size right is new .
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With those changes to the setup setup I am able to keep the boost below 200 KPA until about 5500-6k rpm at which point it will shoot up to 220+ which is still higher than I want just for this short period in time until I put in an engine with forged internals and it might be too much to ask with this setup. I need this to run for 2-3 months .

I noticed the car was running hotter than I think it should be on cruise , and I started taking a look at the timing map and realized it’s all really low . That’s also Part of the reason I think the boost is so high. I have the timing set conservatively because I don’t know what the stock bottom end can take. As the car goes to the higher boost cells the timing drops accordingly . I can clearly see it increasing the boost at this time and I think that’s part of the problem . The reason it’s a predicament for me is Its kind of a weird situation. I want to increase the timing , but for less power not more power . if I can increase the timing a little i think the boost will stay lower but I don’t want to run too much timing but to get the boost any lower I would need to .



I am probably going to be Building a new better manifold with an upsized wastegate and much bigger piping upstream and D/S of the WG sometime down the road also
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Re: B3 90Q 07k

Postby audifreakjim » Mon Mar 22, 2021 11:20 pm

Stock bottom end and compression or did you stack dome gaskets? I still find it hard to believe that WG can't flow enough. It would be interesting to see a log with RPM, timing, manifold pressure and turbo shaft speed to plot against the compressor map. Let's see a screenshot of your timing map
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B3 90Q 07k

Postby Afterthought » Tue Mar 23, 2021 1:12 am

audifreakjim wrote:Stock bottom end and compression or did you stack dome gaskets? I still find it hard to believe that WG can't flow enough. It would be interesting to see a log with RPM, timing, manifold pressure and turbo shaft speed to plot against the compressor map. Let's see a screenshot of your timing map


Yep stock engine all together . I’m just waiting for the pistons and rods to show up so I would expect it will take me a few months to get an engine fully built and swap it in.

Regarding the boost I still can’t figure that out either .. is it really possible that I would need a 60Mm WG ? It’s a TiAL 44MM WG. And it makes no sense to me, unless this engine just flows that much more . My only experience in tuning is on 2.2 and with this size and configuration of WG I could keep the boost to nothing if I want to without issue .

I used a 1.5” Sch 10 feed pipe to the wastegate , so about 1.62” ID . Wastegate exhaust side of the pipe is clear of any obstructions and it’s all backpurged so the welds are smooth , not too much angle on the tie into the down pipe .

I also pulled the WG , checked that it has the full range of travel put a little never seize on the shaft and cycled it .

It boggles me a little . I t could be an issue with how the wastegate takes off of the collector possibly, but I used an ell so instead of coming off perpendicular to the collector it’s angled a little . but I see plenty of people designing headers this way .

So what am I missing ?

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It seems like from a log the low timing is contributing to the spool , it’s in the single digits . I did that to be “safe” but it looks in hindsight maybe it wasn’t the best , like I need to raise it up to get the engine to run decent .

I started out with something like this
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Now I’ve raised it little by little to look more like this below and I’ll try it out . I have some knock detection headphones on order .
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B3 90Q 07k

Postby Afterthought » Tue Mar 23, 2021 8:07 am

Haha OK so, quick update . Just got home from work. did a quick 4th pull on the way ... So more timing was not the answer I was hoping for. Boost took right off even faster and sooner at 5 K rpm. Went from 187 KPA to 240 kpa in .33 seconds. Theres's something I'm missing but I dont know what. Maybe the VVT settings I put in are wrong.
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Re: B3 90Q 07k

Postby highlander69 » Wed Mar 24, 2021 3:36 pm

Looking great.

Awesome work as usual !!

:beer:
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B3 90Q 07k

Postby Afterthought » Wed Mar 24, 2021 7:47 pm

highlander69 wrote:Looking great.

Awesome work as usual !!

:beer:


I’m trying to get this thing ripping . I need to get the rods ASAP because I realise going to hit Hard with this turbo . Will be cool to compare this to 20v


This isn’t going to help my boost control issue but I got a mac valve finally .

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I’m looking at some ideas for how to redo the wastegate tie in . There is only so much space to work with on a collector .
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Maybe something like this ?
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Re: B3 90Q 07k

Postby FFF » Wed Mar 24, 2021 8:08 pm

I must admit I am confused with your boost control issues - as you mention there are lots of headers that take of at right angles from the collector... sorry I am not adding any insight!
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B3 90Q 07k

Postby Afterthought » Wed Mar 24, 2021 9:59 pm

my initial conclusion from the behavior of the car was , this is behaving exactly like wastegate is not big enough (or not getting enough flow ) . So then I set out to see if can prove that initial assumption wrong somehow before I end up making a new manifold with larger wastegate. I can do that and I’m not opposed to it , I just want to make sure I’m not missing something because if feels like something is not adding up.

These are the things I think it can be :
Improper wastegate plumbing
Tried signal to bottom, signal to top , low duty cycle , high duty cycle. Now I’ll try the new MAC valve

Poor WG priority on manifold design
Possible

Sticking / poor wastegate function
I took it off the car , checked function, lubed the shaft . A smart guy I know suggested it’s possible that maybe somehow due to install it’s binding when in the car - this I can’t rule out unless I add pressure to the bottom chamber and measure /observe it opening .

Exhaust backpressure issue
I don’t have a way to measure this yet

Too little timing/too much fuel
Also a possibility

Spring too strong ...
I’m running weakest one possible . Alex also pointed out maybe I should try it without the spring which I think I’ll do just to be sure . I mean the other way to test that is just to replace the wastegate with a literal dump tube

Or the 2.5 just flows way more than I thought it did and it needs a bigger wastegate- which is in the mail now .

So maybe someone else can point out something I’m missing . But we’ve got between 4 and 24 hours before I start on a new header and eliminate this setback entirely

I just did another quick test . Went for a drive . With no wastegate spring at all I can keep it down to 200 kpa +\- about 10 kpa to 7K rpm . So it’s still not what I was hoping for but , I do think there is a way I’d be able to run it like this until I’m ready for high boost . It would be cheesy but , No spring and 4-port mac valve .
However I have a plan for how I can fit a larger wastegate just requires swapping the manifold and making a new DP . I just have to figure out how I can fit it all
In there as the wastegate will
Now be wider , and I think the closer I can put it to the turbo the better .


Here’s a quick pull in 4th gear - 3400-6000
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Re: B3 90Q 07k

Postby jbrentd » Thu Mar 25, 2021 7:43 am

Afterthought wrote:Sticking / poor wastegate function
I took it off the car , checked function, lubed the shaft . A smart guy I know suggested it’s possible that maybe somehow due to install it’s binding when in the car - this I can’t rule out unless I add pressure to the bottom chamber and measure /observe it opening .


I have a lot to learn about this stuff, but I would lean towards this first. I'd want to make sure it is fully actuating and not causing a restriction while fully installed. Like you said, you were careful when sizing the manifold.

**EDIT**
Also, is the line on the top of the wastegate going to your intake manifold? This may be a stupid question... If so, can you disconnect it so that it's just to atmosphere to rule out any possibility that there is pressure keeping the WG closed?
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Re: B3 90Q 07k

Postby audifreakjim » Thu Mar 25, 2021 10:51 am

Remove the valve from the equation. Connect the lower port of the WG directly to the compressor housing and leave the top vented to atmosphere.

Then definitely try it without the spring. Springs are relative, the same spring may make 10psi on one motor, and 15 psi on another high flowing motor. What "color" do you have in there now?

I'm fairly certain a 44mm WG should not have any issues controlling boost here.
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Re: B3 90Q 07k

Postby Afterthought » Thu Mar 25, 2021 3:29 pm

I can easily remove the top cap and see that the shaft moves freely up and down and isn’t binding .

This pull yesterday was no spring at all, nothing connected to the top chamber single dedicated pressure only line to bottom chamber .

I think it must be due to the take off
for the wastegate being nearly perpendicular to the collector . I make the collector pretty short and there is not much room on there . But I have an idea of how I can improve it . Will update soon

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Re: B3 90Q 07k

Postby Afterthought » Fri Mar 26, 2021 7:22 am

New manifold is done . Just need to make a downpipe and I’m getting my ass kicked by it . Should be done in the next few days .

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Was able to repurpose this flange to make the special EFR IRL Flange
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Re: B3 90Q 07k

Postby jbrentd » Fri Mar 26, 2021 8:07 am

Pinch me off some of the Red Man!

You made quick work of that...nice work! Did you have that header sitting on the shelf?
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Re: B3 90Q 07k

Postby audifreakjim » Fri Mar 26, 2021 10:05 am

Haha, that will work, very nice
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Re: B3 90Q 07k

Postby Afterthought » Fri Mar 26, 2021 9:40 pm

jbrentd wrote:Pinch me off some of the Red Man!

You made quick work of that...nice work! Did you have that header sitting on the shelf?

yeah I made a few of the headers and every one was from scratch so eventually once I got a design I liked , I decided to make a copy of it- or pretty close at least . So I used that fixture and had one laying around most of the way welded up with no flange or wastegate on it . So I ordered a 2” pipe from ACE race for the wastegate feed pipe .
This one puts the turbo in a little different spot , so I had to lengthen the oil drain line and a single cut and kind of re-clock the aluminum intake pipe to get it away from the #1 runner . Other than that I was able to re use my lines for turbo oil and coolant feed .
I’m having trouble finding anything wastage related at all. TiAL or
turbosmart wastegates are 4-6 weeks back ordered , wastegate clamps for inlet and outlet , springs , I can’t get any of it . Even the places that show it in stock don’t have it . So for now I just have this one turbosmart wastegate that I got that’s been used for testing . It looks lightly used and diaphragm is in perfect shape . Only
One spring with it and later I can measure and see . I’m not sure if these springs are interchangeable with the TiAL but according to the chart this is a 5 psi spring . Image



I forgot to mention this also but the other day I started the car and heard some god awful noise coming from the engine . It turns out it was actually the serpentine belt Jumping the pulley and back on .
Any time I take the car to high rpm the belt starts to work it’s way off .
So I’m getting a proper power steering pump relocation kit and pulley from issam to fix my home made shit .
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Re: B3 90Q 07k

Postby ringbearer » Fri Mar 26, 2021 9:52 pm

Your “homemade shit” is pretty great, don’t beat yourself up too much!
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Re: B3 90Q 07k

Postby Afterthought » Mon Mar 29, 2021 9:13 pm

ringbearer wrote:Your “homemade shit” is pretty great, don’t beat yourself up too much!

Occasionally there Is a” miss” or quite a few things I have to redo and this is one of them ...
Just got the box from issam just showed up though so I should be able to feel less likely to need to throw the spare belt in the back seat on the side of the road at 5 AM.
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