Anyone have Vems + 01e w/ 7a flywheel?

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Anyone have Vems + 01e w/ 7a flywheel?

Postby quattrobros » Tue Dec 10, 2019 2:04 am

originally i started out with a 3b + 016 combo using a vems plug n play which worked great.

now the car has a 7a flywheel with an 01e and ive been reading that a hall inverter is needed or possibly a larger flywheel pin?

i have a few more things to sort out before i start the car but does anyone have any experience with this that they can share? is this an issue anymore or am i just reading an old post?

Here is what im referring to: http://www.vems.hu/wiki/index.php?page= ... LLInverter
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Re: Anyone have Vems + 01e w/ 7a flywheel?

Postby varia » Wed Dec 11, 2019 12:17 pm

You dont need a larger flywheel pin, you need a more ferrous. But its still a hit and miss.
The problem is with vems pickup for the signal, its just bad.

Sometime it cant be fixed with that, so you need alternative solution like the 034 VR sensor/bracket/kit
or the 60-2 rear crank shaft seal, that works well
http://www.efiexpress.com/catalog/produ ... cts_id=137
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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Re: Anyone have Vems + 01e w/ 7a flywheel?

Postby quattrobros » Wed Dec 11, 2019 12:58 pm

I considered the 60-2 rear main but since it worked flawlessly on my 3b flywheel i was told to leave it.

So far it seems to work fine? I have consistent spark and an rpm signal. Car wont start however. I just periodically hear pops out of the exhaust. I did a coil conversion as well.

Going to check it over with a timing light and see if there is any issue there.
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Re: Anyone have Vems + 01e w/ 7a flywheel?

Postby varia » Wed Dec 11, 2019 2:24 pm

check the log in vems
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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Re: Anyone have Vems + 01e w/ 7a flywheel?

Postby quattrobros » Wed Dec 11, 2019 2:57 pm

I have a triggerlog and a config file that i sent to Marc. But im sure it will be a while before he responds.

FIrst time triggerlogging and i can only do it while cranking so its short.

Also when i try to log it says not enough data most of the time.

When i "test" both spark and injector on the visuals page both injector 1 and coil 1 (numbers on the left column) correspond to cylinder 1 and so on.

On the triggerlog there are 15 primary ticks between every secondary tick which is good i believe.

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Re: Anyone have Vems + 01e w/ 7a flywheel?

Postby audifreakjim » Fri Dec 13, 2019 12:43 pm

You should not have to monkey with any of those numbers. I had to buy a usb scope and log the sensors to line up the hall sensor with the pin sensor. They have to overlap perfectly. Explained in this thread.
http://www.vemssupport.com/forum/index.php?topic=1761.0

Once you know that looks good via the scope, then you can look at firing order, etc which is another pain in the ass. I put stickers on my crank pulley to mark TDC for each cyl and used a timing light on each coil to verify everything was firing correctly.
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Re: Anyone have Vems + 01e w/ 7a flywheel?

Postby quattrobros » Fri Dec 13, 2019 1:59 pm

I did an eye ball check and the hall sensor and pin line up perfectly as far as i can tell. Ive seen people adjust the degrees before TDC number with a timing light. Thats the only one i plan to adjust if needed.

I do get spark it just sounds like a wrong firing order. I have a timing light now so that will hopefully help.
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Re: Anyone have Vems + 01e w/ 7a flywheel?

Postby quattrobros » Fri Dec 13, 2019 2:21 pm

What is a usb scope? Another word for osciliscope or is it like a usb powered cheaper version?
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Re: Anyone have Vems + 01e w/ 7a flywheel?

Postby quattrobros » Sun Dec 15, 2019 12:50 am

Timing light solved everything! Cylinder 1 was firing at tdc for cylinder 4. Even though when i tested all the outputs the injectors and coils correspond to the same cylinder but i guess vems doesn't care. I dont want to call it stupid as its probably a case of me not knowing whats going on.

Can someone chime in and explain? Is there anyway to set up injectors and coils via only software and know with confidence that they will fire in the correct cylinders?

Also my TDC after the trigger was off about 2 degrees so i got that adjusted as well.
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Re: Anyone have Vems + 01e w/ 7a flywheel?

Postby audifreakjim » Mon Dec 16, 2019 11:49 am

It's stupid, no other way to put it. No excuse in this age of tech to have such a convoluted mess to setup the engine timing. But, you figured it out! If you want to verify they are in the correct firing order, do as I state above.
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Re: Anyone have Vems + 01e w/ 7a flywheel?

Postby quattrobros » Mon Dec 16, 2019 2:32 pm

Any other post i can find about this same issue always has #4 firing at #1tdc. Seems like the intuitive way to do it is having it shifted up by 3.

I did end up marking the crank pulley for each tdc. Figured i might as well if im doing all of this anyway.

Thanks!
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Re: Anyone have Vems + 01e w/ 7a flywheel?

Postby quattrobros » Thu Dec 19, 2019 7:33 pm

More issues!

Car idles fine. As soon as there is any throttle input it stumbles and thinks its at 8k rpm. The actual rpm wont increase at all since it starts missing right away. The strange part is its immediate as soon as the TPS clicks without even physically changing position it will do it.

Anybody have any ideas?

There are a few less ptrig and less strig when this happens too.

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Re: Anyone have Vems + 01e w/ 7a flywheel?

Postby quattrobros » Thu Dec 19, 2019 11:12 pm

This is so strange seems to happen only when the iac is off.

Its not like im revving it and getting a trigger error because the engine speed is too fast for the sensors to keep up. There is no physical change in rpm contrary to what the log says.

It has to be when the switch in the tps is deactivated there is some electrical noise causing the sensors to freak out. Injector pulse width and duty cycle drop to 0 when the rpm peaks as well.
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Re: Anyone have Vems + 01e w/ 7a flywheel?

Postby audifreakjim » Fri Dec 20, 2019 12:16 pm

How does it behave with the TPS unplugged?
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Re: Anyone have Vems + 01e w/ 7a flywheel?

Postby quattrobros » Fri Dec 20, 2019 3:09 pm

Didnt get a chance. Does the tps do anything other than acceleration enrichment? If i open it slowly it should behave normal provided everything else is ok correct?

Also i figure the injectors and spark turning off is just due to the overrun safety rather than anything effecting it directly.

Ill report back soon.
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Re: Anyone have Vems + 01e w/ 7a flywheel?

Postby audifreakjim » Fri Dec 20, 2019 3:20 pm

Correct, it's just accell enrichment by default.
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Re: Anyone have Vems + 01e w/ 7a flywheel?

Postby quattrobros » Sat Dec 21, 2019 10:03 pm

Ok so when i unplug every possible electrical thing it still does the same thing. when i try turning the throttle even extremely slowly it will be ok from 900-1200 rpm and then i just start getting hit with lessptrig and lessStrig errors.

It had to be the timing pin right? I cannot think of anything else. Any other suggestions?

Anybody have any advice or links on how to get a new pin in?

Can i just throw a hollow pin or square over my existing pin?
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Re: Anyone have Vems + 01e w/ 7a flywheel?

Postby DE80q » Sat Dec 21, 2019 11:15 pm

I had made a "mega pin" for someone a couple years ago. It was 3X the diameter of the OEM pin, and machine to the same radius as the flywheel. This was done so that the sensor had more area to read at higher RPMs. I have also heard of others welding pieces of steel to the sides of the OEM pin to cause the same effect.
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Re: Anyone have Vems + 01e w/ 7a flywheel?

Postby quattrobros » Sat Dec 21, 2019 11:29 pm

so it just needs to be wider or more ferrous or just every dimension?
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Re: Anyone have Vems + 01e w/ 7a flywheel?

Postby quattrobros » Sun Dec 22, 2019 12:13 am

This is a picture from a while ago but its the current flywheel in the car cleaned up of course.
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Re: Anyone have Vems + 01e w/ 7a flywheel?

Postby DE80q » Sun Dec 22, 2019 12:41 am

Yep, the wider area of the pin allows the sensor to see it easier. The one I did was for an aftermarket aluminum flywheel, but same general idea.
"If you can't find one, make one"

Dallastown, PA
1991 Audi 80 quattro (10vt project)
1991 Audi Coupe Quattro (project: my first 20v)
2007 Mitsubishi Raider(Dakota in disguise)
2019 Chevy Cruze RS hatch (wife's little red sporty car)
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Re: Anyone have Vems + 01e w/ 7a flywheel?

Postby quattrobros » Sun Dec 22, 2019 12:49 am

looks a bit tricky since its up against that lip on the flywheel. I was thinking using square channel and covering the pin and adding a few tacks.

Anyone know if its fairly weldable? I removed some clutch alignment pins by welding some metal to it and pulling it off. It caused some of the pins to become brittle and crack. Is the whole flywheel like that. Iron im guessing?
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Re: Anyone have Vems + 01e w/ 7a flywheel?

Postby quattrobros » Sun Dec 22, 2019 12:52 am

I guess i do have a practice flywheel as well so i can do that before i try anything.
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Re: Anyone have Vems + 01e w/ 7a flywheel?

Postby DE80q » Sun Dec 22, 2019 1:16 am

The flywheel is cast iron yes. The pins used are normally hardened steel. It is weldable, but as you said, normally becomes brittle.
"If you can't find one, make one"

Dallastown, PA
1991 Audi 80 quattro (10vt project)
1991 Audi Coupe Quattro (project: my first 20v)
2007 Mitsubishi Raider(Dakota in disguise)
2019 Chevy Cruze RS hatch (wife's little red sporty car)
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Re: Anyone have Vems + 01e w/ 7a flywheel?

Postby quattrobros » Sun Dec 22, 2019 3:49 pm

Ok so here is what i did. Found a tension pin and tried slipping it over. At first it did not work because it was too thick and would hit the sensor.

I then flipped the pin so the side with the slit s facing the sensor. Basically just adding material on either side of the pin and closing the gap between the pin and the wall.

Hammered it on with some sleeve retainer for now for testing.

Seems to be working fine now. Havent tested above 2500 rpm yet.
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