The Project Pad

I think that schematic is 99% correct, thus I have 90% of a BOB to connect VEMS figured out. Not sure it will happen in 18 days though!

The real BBQ list is:
Register for BBQ & Friday Dyno
FINALLY replace blown front strut (long story)
Replace a few gaskets to lock down a slight drip which has been annoying me
Replace the oil pressure switch
Get the front bumper to stop drooping (missing hardware)
Flush and fill misc fluids
May as well do filters
Clean, polish, detail, and wax

My plan is to leave Denver Thurs, spend the night outside of SLC, and cruise down to LV in the AM.

Right on. I'll be at IMS all day Friday

Blew a rear damper seal today, I suppose I should have expected they were due for service. Wish it happened after BBQ as I'm not feeling great about putting 1900 miles on a compromised damper, especially when it's not an off the shelf part.

BBQ is not out of the question yet but finding a shop to rebuild this thing tomorrow, and not charge an arm and a leg, so I can get on the road on time is unlikely.

effffff that sucks

Any chance of crowd sourcing one from the b5 crowd on a temporary or swap basis?

can you just take it apart and replace a seal with one from an industrial supply place or buy the actual part from a rebuilder?

Not sure about the universal seal option; also need oil and nitrogen. Couldn't get anything done today. Even if I could get a temporary workaround, now I have the dilemma of needing something to drive and both my cars are compromised.

I have about 12 hours to decide what's going on but, as much as I want to see everyone's cars, using the weekend to work on my CQ now seems less stressful.

oh yeah nitrogen duh

pkw wrote:oh yeah nitrogen duh

And pulling vacuum to remove bubbles from the oil. Doing things right is a pain.

UPDATE!

Well, finally went to the track... lasted 4 laps

Here's the long story, had all summer to do whatever prep I wanted but kept putting it off When I finally had to get ready I decided to pull the IM to inspect a persistent oil drip, ended up being a larger leak so I re-did the valley pan as it had been a few years. Getting new gaskets took a bit so it was somewhat a push to get ready for the track and I didn't have much time to generally go over things (which I regret now). So, loaded up and leave for High Plains Raceway (HPR). After about a block, I realize something is off and pull over to find a very hot cat. Re-review wires on the DS bank, found I swapped 2 plug wires (bad googleing) so only a slight delay. I hoped that was the last issue for the day but it ended up being a sign of things to come

The hour drive to HPR was uneventful, caught up to a group from Bluewater Performance towing the PIHC S3 so was excited to get the chance for a closer look at that car. Unload, drivers meeting, line up for lead follow since I'm a newb.

Lead follow starts out fun, lead car is a C6 vette, the 90 feels good but focusing on learning the line and trying to keep up with the group. Since almost everything has more power than the 90 it was challenging to maintain momentum through corners while the rest of the group really could rely on powering out of every corner and down the straights. Still, I made due and felt better once I got to the front of the line where I was only subject to the instructor's braking. About half-way through the next lap, I was back at the end of the line, something felt odd and under breaking for turn 8 (a nearly 180º left) a wheel locks hard. Luckily I was in the back and kept control to pull to the apron. I figured, hoped, it was a flat but the flatbed driver didn't see one. Once back in the paddock, it was quickly obvious that the caliper was not where it should be


I scrambled to pull everything apart and see WTF happened and I found a broken aluminum adapter bracket. I'm fairly sure I would never have noticed the corroded bracket during a routine review so I felt less bad about running out of time.Since it was early and my friend's wife was just hanging out, I started calling parts stores thinking I could pull the adapters and downgrade to stock B5 S4 rotors. We found a set, and pads, at the closest town so we headed to grab them. By the time we got back it was lunch but I started trying to bolt things together after a quick bite. To my dismay, the rotor was not lining up with the caliper. At the time, I figured the issue was a variant in S4 rotor and since there were no others in the area we decided to we'd tow the 90 home and I'd pilot the C5 Z06 track car back to his house. At some point, I rode along for half a session in the Z06. Seems like a nice base for a track toy, he's basically stripped it to install the harness bar and seats and added some heat management.

Since I spent most of the day running for parts and messing with things, I took the chance to get a ride along in the BWP PPIHC S3. Robb Holland was at the track doing laps but I ended up with another, still skilled, driver who's name I missed. Still, what a fiddlesticking car! We did about 3 laps and it was insanely fast, point and shoot, awesomeness Almost worth the trip. Can't wait to see what they build for next year!

At this point, we loaded up and headed home. Driving the Z06 home was entertaining, not the best street setup but manageable. The shifter is tight, he's trying to improve that in the off season. An hour on the highway is dull but I'll have to get some seat time in at the track next season.

The cherry on top of the bad day was that I somehow lost the Harry's Lap Timer recording of my laps

Now that I've had a chance to dig deeper, I've remember/discovered that Mance made his own bracket. Unfortunately, with B4 hubs I cannot bolt on any B5 rear BBK because the flange spacing is ~0.25" different. Of course, this is after I bought the Apikol B5 rear BBK thinking it would bolt up

So the question is, should I:

1. Have somebody make a, steel, bracket to adapt for B6/7 rear rotors (I don't really want to rebuild the ECS rotors)
2. Swap to B5 hubs and risk clearance issues with the fender (requiring different wheels or narrower tires) so I can use the Apikol kit
3. Find some 5x112 rotors (or re-drill) which work with the B4 hubs, even if they are stock size

I suppose a 4th option would be to try and shim things into alignment but that feels less like doing it right.

My goal is to get back to an early spring track day, I was hoping to honestly evaluate the 90 on track to better understand what I want to do next. I think I'm ready for a new experience on the street but that may be in addition to the 90.

Wow! Been a long time! How far off do you think the brackets are? I'll be using 5mm spacers on the front of my 80q to run the porsche 4 pot setup with an A8 rotor. Spacers weren't exactly a hack, as long as they are machined properly.

I love this 90!

Fwiw I am glad I went through with doing the 5x112 swap on the hubs on my 90. Opened up some brake options front and rear. I’m running little different kit but it’s from Apikol, it’s a Porsche rear caliper with b7 s4 rotor . Its a really nice kit , the only downside to that setup is I need to make a bracket to hold my additional mechanical parking brake only caliper .

Thanks guys, been around just not much to say when you're daily driving without issues

I'm pretty sure these are B4 S2 Sedan hubs (5x112 but not the same as B5), when doing it right goes wrong! I was almost sure Mance had used a full B5 rear suspension with 4.11 diff but found mention of making the bracket on AudiWorld today.

Judging by this thread while the B5 spacing is ~0.25 off of the B4, the rotors are a bit less. I'll probably start by shimming the rotor till it clears and go from there with a spacer. This has the same effect of B5 hubs, pushing the wheels out, but I don't think there is a good way to bring the caliper center in-board with spacers (need to take another look).

Mcstiff wrote:Not sure about the universal seal option; also need oil and nitrogen. Couldn't get anything done today. Even if I could get a temporary workaround, now I have the dilemma of needing something to drive and both my cars are compromised.

I have about 12 hours to decide what's going on but, as much as I want to see everyone's cars, using the weekend to work on my CQ now seems less stressful.

Also, this was dumb I should have just went to BBQ. Ended up replacing a shaft anyway. Hindsight is 20/20 (does that make 2020 hindsight ?); hopefully we can have another BBQ!

I'd think the easiest option would be the custom steel bracket, no? If you don't like it you can just remove and go another direction with minimal loss of time and capital.

Yeah, swapping hubs is a bit of a pain but probably not that expensive. I'd consider grabbing a whole upright pair to avoid messing with bearings.

Spacers behind the disk is low cost to test and figure out if I have a tire issue.

Also, I just found this from the EU dorks. Need to look into it...

Coupe Variant -

Disc 8E0 615 601R has correct bolt pattern (5x112) and centre hole size for S2 (56.1mm)
The disc needs to be machined down to 280mm diameter for the Coupe application.

S8 caliper carrier W4D0 615 425C (each side) - this is the variant for the 280x22 option on the S8

43mm pistoned calipers from the RR quattro or S4/S6 rear (447 615 423 & 447 615 424) or the alloy versions from the A8/S8 (W4D0 615 423 E & W4D0 615 424 E). Note the A8/S8 calipers need to have the handbrake cable location widened slightly for the S2 Coupe handbrake. More importantly, the hydraulic connection on the A8/S8 rear caliper does NOT work with the stock S2 rear hose - you will need to get a custom hose made. These problems do not occur with the RR/S4/S6 rear calipers that I have used.

Pads for the 280mm version of the S8 (#)

On account of this configuration on the Coupe, with different dimensions than as the original applications, a ~4mm spacer is needed between the mounting face of the S8 carrier and the strut. This positions the carrier centrally for the reduced 8E0 disc. I successfully used a handful of steel washers for this.

To accomodate the spacers, longer carrier bolts are mandatory fitment. These 50mm ones from the S2 Avant (#) are long enough and can be trimmed down to size (~35mm) for the purpose.

This upgrade is fitted to my own S2 Coupe and I am completely happy with it. In the fitting process I of course had to remove the backplates (splash shields) which are too small for the 280mm disc. It would be nice to source suitably sized alternatives that could be shaped to fit.


Avant / Sedan Variant -

On the Avant or Sedan models, due to the different handbrake mechanism, it is possible to use the full sized 300mm disc from the 8E0 chassis (listed above) along with the intended NeuS4 calipers (8E0 615 423/424 C) , carriers (8E0 615 425B ) and pads (4B3 698 451).

These can only be used on the Coupe if there is a solution to the handbrake cable problem - hydraulically they fit up perfectly. One important point on the NeuS4 caliper is that a funky hydraulic hose is required ( 8E0 611 775H) - fortuitously it has the same sized fitting where it joins the hard brake lines. It doesn't hurt to replace the union clips at this stage (4D0 611 715B). Minor modification of the hole that locates the handbrake cable on the neu caliper is required for the avant/sedan cable - just needs enlarged a little. This upgrade has been successfully performed by a few members on the S2forum.

If I read this correctly, I might just need B6/7 rear calipers/carriers! Not the worst news, just means I've accumulated a bunch of B5 stuff I will not need.

On the Avant or Sedan models, due to the different handbrake mechanism, it is possible to use the full sized 300mm disc from the 8E0 chassis (listed above) along with the intended NeuS4 calipers (8E0 615 423/424 C) , carriers (8E0 615 425B ) and pads (4B3 698 451).

Why not just space the caliper back? That's what I did on my G60's and will be doing it on my porsche calipers as well. The G60's used a pair of standard washers per caliper, and I machine and surface ground some 5mm spacers for the porsche brackets.

I'll try and stare at it, and take some pictures, this evening/tomorrow but I don't think I can space the caliper (and carrier) "in"/away from the rotor because the bracket bolts to the outside of the upright and the caliper carrier bolts to the inside of the bracket.

Oh ok I misunderstood what you were saying about the hubs, I get it now .
So for options , b6/B7 possible bolt in option would be really nice, or Custom one off steel machined brackets, or swap hubs and you could verify if wheel fitment would be an issue by test fitting with wheel spacers?

Shimming the calipers would not be bad either... On my setup I wish everything I had was plug and play but it does require a couple of shims , not too worried about running those though. If you don’t want to make them , Apikol sells them I think in 1 or 2mm

Here is a shot of the B5 rear, the issue is my S2 Sedan hub rotor mounting surface is closer to the caliper carrier than the B5. Given my experience with custom brackets, I'm leaning toward a no adapter solution and reselling the apikol kit. I already have the B6/7 rotors and the ECS rotors I have are close to end of life.

I did think about bolting the carrier to the inside of the adapter but I'd need to tap the adapter and that is the rough side of the the carrier. Might be too much offset anyway. KISS.

Finally ended up buying Powerstop B6 calipers, looks very good to me (we'll see how the finish holds up). Just need lines (the B6 is a larger banjo) and pads.