The Project Pad

themagellan wrote:

themagellan wrote:This needs to be running already!

IS this not what you are looking for?

OEM and Oversized ones available:

http://www.autohausaz.com/search/produc ... ring%20Set

OR if you want it tomorrow order this one before 3pm today

http://www.germanautoparts.com/Audi/200/Engine/12/1

Neither make mention of "special hardened Sputter bearing".... wonder if it's a myth

I heard a little birdie tell me there was some big time movement on this.

Are the weather reports true?

Birdies always predict, unpredictable weather...

If you haven't read my thread the goal is a broad, flat 500+whp while keeping the stock rev limit (~7500rpm) on a virgin (for now) AAN head on 7A cams... Pump & Water/Meth would be used to reach that level. An upper ~475whp on straight pump+water only for daily. Which brings us to turbo upgrade time & I'm tossed between 2 options...

Currently:
PTE5857 Dual Ceramic Ball-Bearing
Comp 58mm inducer 76.2mm exducer
Turbine 64.9mm inducer 56.6mm exducer

Considering:
PTE5858
Comp-58mm inducer 76.2mm exducer
Turbine-64.9mm inducer 58mm exducer
Will Possibly go .82 V-band here to avoid choke

OR

PTE5862
Comp-58mm inducer 76.2mm exducer
Turbine-71mm inducer 61.8mm exducer
on a .64 housing as this is soo close to a GTX3576 in size & looks like it might be better up top by a small margin on the hotside

As a Reference, below are the GTX sizes for comparison:
GTX3576
Comp-58mm inducer 76.6mm exducer
Turbine-68mm inducer 62mm Exducer

GTX3582
Comp-62.5mm inducer 82.5mm exducer
Turbine-68mm inducer 62mm Exducer

Added Options:
V-Band inlet .64 A/R with V-Band discharge (Free of charge) and I already have my 5857 fitted with Ported S compressor cover 4.0" inlet/2.5" outlet on my current unit

Will most likely also be mated to an IMS Header/Downpipe Combo as well...

The Question:
Will I realize any noticeable gain with these bigger hotsides compared to say the 5857 in a 7a cam'd 7500rpm limit application? I know back pressure will be reduced at the cost of spool in the case of the 5862 but will it be worth it if I don't ring it out a bit higher like 7800rpm?

I know there aren't many PTE fans here but the cost of the upgrade is peanuts compared to buying an equivalent FP/GTX/BW/Comp Turbo. So any input would be appreciated.

I don't have a whole lot of input, but I do love Precision's comp wheels and they are working hard on their turbine stuff too. I might start to trust them more in another year or so if they keep up the good work. Seems like the reliability has really gotten better since 2010.

I'm curious why you don't want to rev to 7800 or 8k. I did it on a DAILY BASIS for like 3 years straight or however long I had the car running on VEMS before I took it down for the current phase of the build. It's fine!

Go big or go home.

500whp on pump with a safe tune is big turbo mode. Jim did it with his pte but I'm not sure if he ran that tune daily (Jim?). That's a lot of power and you're going to have to sacrifice some spool methinks.

I'm going to do gtx3576 with either .82 or 1.0 a/r and qsv to hopefully spool before (even if just) 4krpm. But that ain't happening for a while. I don't have any power goals because the 4k is crazy with any more than 300

I say you run the turbo you have now, just becuase you have it. Upgrading it down the road isn't a big deal. Are you on a vband housing now?

Hank

loxxrider wrote:I don't have a whole lot of input, but I do love Precision's comp wheels and they are working hard on their turbine stuff too. I might start to trust them more in another year or so if they keep up the good work. Seems like the reliability has really gotten better since 2010.

Totally Agree! I've gained alot of confidence in recent years in their products which is why I place my fears behind me on this choice... plus I already have the turbo...

loxxrider wrote:I'm curious why you don't want to rev to 7800 or 8k. I did it on a DAILY BASIS for like 3 years straight or however long I had the car running on VEMS before I took it down for the current phase of the build. It's fine!

You did that on a virgin head and block?
The inclination to stay around 7500 is just longevity really. As power increases the assumption is that wear does as well. On top of that I'm not touching the stock balance and am pretty sure that an additional 500-600rpm of revving can drastically increase centripetal forces.
So choosing the 58mm as opposed to the popular 62mm comp size should help me achieve this while keeping the curve to the left. I'm think of throwing whatever balancing cost/efforts toward a possible Port N Polish to the head to further bring things to the left. But we'll see...

chaloux wrote:Go big or go home.
500whp on pump with a safe tune is big turbo mode. Jim did it with his pte but I'm not sure if he ran that tune daily (Jim?). That's a lot of power and you're going to have to sacrifice some spool methinks.

I'm going to do gtx3576 with either .82 or 1.0 a/r and qsv to hopefully spool before (even if just) 4krpm. But that ain't happening for a while. I don't have any power goals because the 4k is crazy with any more than 300

That's the sacrifices I'm talking about. Will the sacrifice of going 5862 show enough gains? Or will staying 5858 be enough to tiptoe into the 500whp mark with better drive-ability. I know it's almost splitting hairs here and a/r also plays a part...
P.S. Not sure if you noticed that the 5862 the direct comparison to your future GTX3576 in size, billet constuction and Ball Bearing usage.

Hank wrote:I say you run the turbo you have now, just becuase you have it. Upgrading it down the road isn't a big deal. Are you on a vband housing now?
Hank

I see what you're doing there! I could save the $500 and redirect it towards the IMS hardware! ...
To answer your question though, it's currently in T3 form now, but the upgrade throws in my choice of hotside FREE!
So I wanted to capitalize on that.
The choices offered are:
- T3 .63 or .82 A/R with 4 bolt (2.5") discharge
- T3 .63 A/R with 5 bolt discharge (with or without wastegate hole)
- T3 .63 or .82 A/R with 3" V-Band discharge
- V-Band inlet .64 or .82 A/R with V-Band discharge
- T4 Tangential .58 or .68 A/R with 3 5/8" V-Band discharge
- T4 Divided .84 A/R with 3 5/8" V-Band discharge

I could possibly go the "chaloux" route and go T4 divided with a QSV but v-band in/out simplicity is nice to have.
If I run my T3 now then I'd have to be the only oddball ordering a lame one-off T3 manifold from you, and that just wouldn't be in the spirit of IROZ Motorsports, now is it

mushasho wrote:

loxxrider wrote:I'm curious why you don't want to rev to 7800 or 8k. I did it on a DAILY BASIS for like 3 years straight or however long I had the car running on VEMS before I took it down for the current phase of the build. It's fine!

You did that on a virgin head and block?
The inclination to stay around 7500 is just longevity really. As power increases the assumption is that wear does as well. On top of that I'm not touching the stock balance and am pretty sure that an additional 500-600rpm of revving can drastically increase centripetal forces.

I sure did. The thing is, this engine is built to hit 8k without issue. Yes, the stresses will increase, but it is already designed to handle them. It's not like we are talking about a big block chevy here. Centripetal forces do go up very quickly with increasing RPM, but plenty of people rev to 7800 and 8k on stock balances or stock everything like me all the time. I'm just saying, don't be afraid! Wear will also increase somewhat (marginally), but if you are only hitting it for a fraction of a second, then it doesn't much matter.

Block has been dropped off to be cleaned in one shop & rotating assembly has been delivered at another shop for balancing...

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chaloux wrote:Go big or go home.

500whp on pump with a safe tune is big turbo mode. Jim did it with his pte but I'm not sure if he ran that tune daily (Jim?). That's a lot of power and you're going to have to sacrifice some spool methinks.

I'm going to do gtx3576 with either .82 or 1.0 a/r and qsv to hopefully spool before (even if just) 4krpm. But that ain't happening for a while. I don't have any power goals because the 4k is crazy with any more than 300

470whp was a safe pump gas level for the PTE5857 on my 8.5:1 motor. Even if the Meth injection failed, I would still run well at this level. That was my street tune.

audifreakjim wrote:

chaloux wrote:Go big or go home.

500whp on pump with a safe tune is big turbo mode. Jim did it with his pte but I'm not sure if he ran that tune daily (Jim?). That's a lot of power and you're going to have to sacrifice some spool methinks.

I'm going to do gtx3576 with either .82 or 1.0 a/r and qsv to hopefully spool before (even if just) 4krpm. But that ain't happening for a while. I don't have any power goals because the 4k is crazy with any more than 300

470whp was a safe pump gas level for the PTE5857 on my 8.5:1 motor. Even if the Meth injection failed, I would still run well at this level. That was my street tune.

At what PSI was this "safe" daily tune set around... and was this a revised tune from what the comparison chart showed?

The comparison chart is the tune I am talking about. About 28 psi from what I recall.

audifreakjim wrote:The comparison chart is the tune I am talking about. About 28 psi from what I recall.

Is this the chart your talking about Jim?

That's the one. You know, now that I think about it, 500 wheel should be easy. On the dyno, the car was eating up more timing and gaining power which leads me to believe we were not getting detonation, most of the time. I backed off the timing because I was getting random knock. I thought at the time I was riding that fine pump gas line, but last month I discovered I needed a restrictor before the ECU to smooth out the map signal. I was seeing swings of -+ 3 degrees of timing. 6 degrees of timing variation can cause a lot of issues..

Nice! SO you're saying that my car should see 500whp without an issue too?

Evo X guys get similar to what Jim got...





http://www.evoxforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=965599&postcount=1

Light Hone with final Piston Wall Clearance .0035", Decked with a 30 RA finish, and Jet Washed....


Profilometer


Cylinder 1


Cylinder 2


Cylinder 3


Cylinder 4


Cylinder 5


Next Stop? Pick up rotating assembly from the Balancing Shop... Stay tuned...

purdy

Obi, they look like they did a great job, that hatch looks like it will be smothering oil so beautifully over the block walls. Let me know if you ever need a hand, I cannot wait to go for a ride in a proper built s6.

Done Work...
Balance Rotating Assembly. Rods & Pistons
Micro Polish Crank, Radius Oil Holes
Jet Wash Crank
Bead Blast Flywheel & Damper

Balance Sheet



Crank








These always break, huh...

Lookin good OB

Thanks Ed... Are you up early getting your 40 ready?

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Damn dude keep it up

The gathering of bottom end parts... I think this should be it for now before assembly...



Next up?

A little head work... Stay tuned...

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