The Project Pad

Bookmarked for future posterity.

Have a PN for the mechanical pump?

Nice project!! 39mpg with gas gears sounds pretty darn good to me. What I'm really jealous of is all the room up front for a big front mount intercooler or radiator.......or both!

I left work today pulled out onto the side st. and suddenly I had no driveline engagement. I recently put B3 4cyl. auto front springs in the rear for more ground clearance so I was able to slide under the rear of the car to see the left rear CV bolts had all come loose. I really thought I tightened them down well during their installation; guess not. These are 108mm CV's with the 10mm bolts with a triplesquare head so I just got a ride home for the tool and I was back in business in no time. These aren't the first fasteners that've loosened up. DI diesels have more intense vibrations than the IDIs and love to shake themselves apart. Oh, I know the solid subframe mounts, Delrin control arms and Delrin rear diff mount don't help matters much lol. I've been trying to find some OE motor mounts from the B3 1.9 AAZ that have slug weights attached to the side of the mount to help reduce vibrations. My A2 Jetta and B4 Passat both had block weights bolted to the subframe. I need something similar to that in addition. The solid rear diff mount is really unnecessary and will be changed out in the spring.

Bookmarked for future posterity.

Have a PN for the mechanical pump?

The pump Part number is: VE4/12F1900R693 (0 460 424 138) for a 2.8TDI VW pump. Here's a thread about it http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=9598.15
and a possible source for one is from one of our own
http://www.advancedautomotion.com/produ ... cts_id=109

quattro87 wrote:Nice project!! 39mpg with gas gears sounds pretty darn good to me. What I'm really jealous of is all the room up front for a big front mount intercooler or radiator.......or both!

Ah yes the intercooler. I'm really going around & around with myself about the best set-up. To put the IC in front of the rad, I could move the rad back toward the engine on new fabbed lower mounts. Or put it under the bumper with the lower valance grill for the intake. The other decision to be made is to have an IC with same side outlets or a longer one with inlet/outlet on each end with a longer return pipe; horizontal bars or vertical bars with longer end tanks. Damn. The discussions over all the advantages/disadvantages only makes the decision more confusing. Any/all ideas are welcome as this has me kinda stumped. I'm using 2" pipe with 2.5" IC inlet/outlets. The last fill up netted 40.2 mpg which is pretty good considering the cold weather.

I would go with S2 intercooler setup, bolt on and factory setup. Just my $0.02.

The 4 cyl rad sits on top of the crossmember and won't fit inside the 5 cyl type crossmember. I was looking at the one you had for sale a bit back and didn't think I could make it fit in the factory configuration. I would prefer to use the lower intake. Perhaps use a V6 crossmember if the snub mount bracket's in the same place; attach IC mounts to the bar. I need input on IC type; the same side in/out or a long return pipe. I use a K14 which doesn't push much air so I'm thinking a shorter overall length has the least pressure drop. I'm leaning toward a same side I/O for that reason. I do understand the downside to this type as the opposite end tank design slows the flow considerably when changing direction. Is there anything else I'm not considering? Does VAG use this design in any cars/trucks? Anyone? Thanks for input.
Rich

Have a look at Treadstone FMICs, they're available in more configs than you can shake a 10-ft clown pole at, and have a good rep from forum members. You might be interested in the TRV series.

http://www.treadstoneperformance.com/vi ... tercoolers

They also offer various styles of end tanks, if you want to custom design your own using a specific size core (CXRacing on eBay might be a decent cheaper alternative for just a core).

HTH

I figure I'm going to move the radiator inboard on extension brackets and mount a 6''-8'' straight through IC in front; with the exit pipe back over the top of it. In the mean time, I received two 1.9d/1.6td specific motor mounts I ordered for my application that incorporate a vibration dampening weighted "slug" attached to one side. The last tank of fuel yielded 39.6 mpg.

What's the clutch-flywheel setup of this car? I'd like to convert my Iltis to diesel but the flywheels I know of are wether too light or of the front wheel drive style... Is it a flywheel from a 4 cylinder 4000 diesel?

I used a flywheel from an '88-'92 B3 Audi 80 2.0 gas 4cyl. (012 trans.), SPEC stage 2-228mm pressure plate with an organic disc. The engagement is a little odd as all because of all the torque comes at once with a manual pump/throttle cable; not like an eTDI. It hasn't slipped at all in spite of that. If I must do it again; I'll machine the flywheel for a 240mm PP and maybe get a heavier diesel flywheel. The starter is from a '97 TDI A4q. The flywheel in your Iltis may be an earlier series ie: like you mentioned Audi 4000 or VW Dasher diesel. Here's a link to a thread which uses your setup I think.http://www.motorgeek.com/viewtopic.php? ... 9&start=50

Using a gasser's flywheel on a diesel, even the heaviest gasser's flywheel will always be "on the edge"... I thought you may have found a readily available diesel flywheel that I didn't think of... For the size, 228mm is plenty enough for a 1.9: you need 240mm only for the 5 cylinders! I prefer stay with Sachs components however... You made me think that the B5 longitudinal engine Passat TDI's clutch/flywheel combo would be about perfect for a car: it's dual mass and available in North America. It's probably the same as the A4 and A6 1.9 TDI's components.

For now the Iltis still has the stock gasser's engine and flywheel. Clutch is tiny, not even a 228mm. Flywheel is the flat type unlike the 4000 one that is dished. For the same weight, the dished one will act as it's heavier because the weight is farther from the axis. But for the Iltis I think the best would be to stay single mass so the 4000 1.6TD flywheel is about the only option... I'll keep an eye opened for this!

I'm not sure where dual mass got in this conversation, but all my cars are single mass, I won't use a DM flywheel. Transverse B5? I'm not sure what that means. Both TDI's (Jetta, 80q) have no chatter problems, pretty quiet. And both of course have different flywheels for different layouts. I must politely disagree about the PP size. The FW I mentioned is a SM flywheel for Audi 1.8t that's drilled for a 240mm plate. My current motor puts out way more torque than the stock 5cyl. did all @ 15-1800 rpm and it's quattro. It's never slipped as I mentioned, but it has a light feel compared to my Jetta which has a larger Sachs VR6 PP & disc. It has a firmer pedal and more solid engagement. The mTDI as I said is unlike any other diesel. The instant throttle response of that torque puts a huge strain on the drivetrain. Letting out the clutch in this thing is like carefully pushing a 1 ton safe out of a 2 story window with like a Rube-Goldberg cable attached to the front bumper. It yanks the car forward. Like a bull head-butting its cage. What about a custom-made flywheel for your app?
Rich

I have to say that if there's no gear chatter all is fine. Like in everything, theory is nothing without practice so since you've done the setup and it works well then your advice is better than mine! By the way, the Iltis has plenty of gear chatter from the factory with the gas engine so by comparison I wouldn't have thought the 1.8T wouldn't be heavy enough for a diesel. Obviously my comparison doesn't apply anymore.

As I read what I wrote about the B5 passat I understand that you don't understand. I wrote transverse instead of longitudinal (I've probably done too much things at the same time today :? ). The LONGITUDINAL engined Passat's clutch and flywheel can be used in Audis: that's what I wanted to write.

For the dual mass, that was just an idea I had, since there are people who likes them better, but like you, as a purist, I stay away from DMF and just get the hang of driving properly ... Maybe finally I could use the 1.8T flywheel too... Anyways, I must finish the 4KQGTDI-M (at least get it to move on its own) and redo my kitchen before, D'oh!

D'oh myself! I get what you're talking about now. B5 long, cool. Y'know I never thought of using Passat stuff; assumed it was all DM. Is it? I really appreciate the dialogue about our projects as we all have different stuff to contribute. I wouldn't be doing this if I didn't love it, and I'll bet that goes the same for you & your projects.
Rich

oil_me wrote:D'oh myself! I get what you're talking about now. B5 long, cool. Y'know I never thought of using Passat stuff; assumed it was all DM. Is it? I really appreciate the dialogue about our projects as we all have different stuff to contribute. I wouldn't be doing this if I didn't love it, and I'll bet that goes the same for you & your projects.
Rich

Yes, the Passat TDI has dual mass, just like the A4/A6 TDI because they're intended to be comfy cars.

I appreciate the dialogue too: by doing this I remember things that I forgot, I have new ideas and I share the few things I know. I like "creative swaps" for the puzzle they are. It's quite an intellectual exercise to find the best match for parts that has never been together and it keeps me from watching TV too much and becoming dumb .

B2/B3/B4 diesels all have same flywheel than gas engines. No such thing as diesel-flywheel with these.

Rich I really hope you can come out and say hello one Thursday, we meet up at roudigan's in Kingston @ 8 pm. I would love a ride in this car....Steve


Sent from crazy town.

Gravzzy - the Passat will use a different spline for the clutch from what I remember, because it uses an 012 transmission, just like the 80/90/A4 does. It shares the spline pattern of the 01E. I have a 5kq 228mm clutch disc and PP sitting (016), as well as a urS4 (01E), I can easily compare.

scubagli wrote:Rich I really hope you can come out and say hello one Thursday, we meet up at roudigan's in Kingston @ 8 pm. I would love a ride in this car....Steve


Sent from crazy town.

I've been meaning to go to one of those GTGs. I have no excuses left not to finally meet you either.
I'll give you a PM if I'm going to head over.
Rich

Good to hear, we are also having our annual show may 4th it is out in samsonville. Would love to see your 80 there!


Sent from crazy town.

MJF wrote:B2/B3/B4 diesels all have same flywheel than gas engines. No such thing as diesel-flywheel with these.

Thanks for the input. I wondered about that. I assumed a heavier flywheel was used for the diesels. (SB, 1Y, AAZ, 1Z). I see you have been through all this. Did you have to deal with any undue vibration with your application?
Rich

Hey Rich what kind of rpms are you seeing at highway speeds? 65-70?


Sent from crazy town.

scubagli wrote:Hey Rich what kind of rpms are you seeing at highway speeds? 65-70?


Sent from crazy town.

According to this online calculator; http://www.car-videos.net/tools/speedrpm.asp,
approximate vehicle speed in each gear @ 3000 rpm:
1st.-15.3, 2nd-27.6, 3rd-41.2, 4th-56.8, 5th-67.9.
A tachometer is on my list. I would prefer to figure out a way to use the G28 speed sensor for the tach signal. Or i might just use this from Dakota digital.
http://www.dakotadigital.com/index.cfm/ ... prd129.htm
I'm working slowly on an 01a TDI tranny that would fit this perfectly. I'd have to work out different axles though. The TDI uses tripod joints instead of familiar CV joints. First comes the intercooler; I've been waiting for some warm/no snowy/salty weather to remove the bumper cover. I'm going to throw a naked aluminum bumper on it and measure/mount it up while still driving it. My other TDI is nagging me for a T-belt change before disaster strikes.

Here's a big update. Back in June, I installed the inter-cooler finally and plumbed it all into the stock airbox. I readjusted the pump timing to the optimal setting of .80mm lift. It was after I set the timing that I committed a mortal sin.
POP QUIZ A**HOLE;
WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU FORGET THE 1/2 DRIVE T-BAR ON THE CRANK BOLT, THEN GO OUT IN THE MORNING TO START IT?
Well it started with a clang; the front mount captured the wrench; it ran for a few seconds until the bolt unscrewed all the way out and the crank pulley fell off. I added insult to injury by trying to start it. Twice. When it didn't start I knew what happened.. AAAAAHHHH. Oh; that sinking, expensive feeling that quickly and thankfully turns to numbness. I just got in my other car and went to work. I couldn't make myself look at it for a week. I thought killed the bastard. I pulled the head to find 2 bent valves, 3 broken lifters. In spite of the easy repair, I opted to buy a new head from ID Parts. It came loaded; with all studs for the exhaust + tensioner stud. New head gasket, head bolts, crank bolt (lol) and now I am back where I started. Needless to say; I'll never use a breaker bar to turn the engine; I use a 3/8 drive ratchet now for all the bolts in the pump timing adjustment so it's not possible to leave it on as I have to switch sockets for each bolt.

Evil done. The #1 exhaust valve was was fully open as you can see the dent is dead center in the lifter (most damaging position)



Piston ghost impression



Cylinder head box inspection



Crank Yank



Car is reassembled




I clearanced the side of a 20v airbox top to change the intake position. I screwed a 2" electrical conduit box connector in with a locknut on the back to hold it in place. It worked slick.



I installed Acetron solid bushings in the front control arm. It replaces an 034 Delrin mount that lasted 4 months. It was badly clunking with fore and aft movement; on accel & decel as well as large low speed bumps. The Acetrons were designed with a thrust washer to minimize wear as well as being harder, made with graphite, etc. http://forums.quattroworld.com/9080/msgs/39119.phtml



The last 2 tanks of fuel were 46.8 mpg and 45.5 mpg. It runs excellent. I've put 11,000 miles on the car since last September and it's my only DD at this time. I'm still working to reduce and minimize vibration; I replaced the solid poly(duh) rear diff mount recently with a solid rubber one. I must install a braided flex pipe after the down pipe in place of the hollowed out cat as well. Another plan is to bolt the subframe balance weight from my '96 Passat TDI somewhere on my car to help reduce vibration resonance in certain rpm ranges.
I'm more content with the car as of late.
Rich