The Project Pad

I helped Shawn with the timing map, and I honestly don't think that was the cause, however it still may have been ignition related. When looking at your logs, the tach input is very questionable. With a poor tach input MS could spark when it's not warranted.

amd is the best wrote:I helped Shawn with the timing map, and I honestly don't think that was the cause, however it still may have been ignition related. When looking at your logs, the tach input is very questionable. With a poor tach input MS could spark when it's not warranted.

Unfortunately, I think most of what appears to be trigger errors is just the unfortunate reality of distributor based timing control. I actually had another email all written to you and just didn't have the heart to finish it when my plans for H20 broke down, but looking at Sam Stone's logs from his '90 80q the input signal definitely has some 'fuzz' to it and I'm sure boost doesn't help. The difference between tuning/driving my 200 and that GTI was worlds just because of his trigger setup. You have to be VERY careful when getting in/out of throttle with my current setup, you can see and feel the distributor moving with the slack of the timing belt and gears. Though, being that it is MSnS setup the ECU cannot give spark to the wrong cylinder (unless it's waayyy off which it's not).

My log that Nick is talking about


Sam's log from his 80q
EDIT I can't figure out how to imbed it, look like halfway down the page: http://www.motorgeek.com/viewtopic.php? ... &start=350

This could be it, but what Dave said has some merit, and looking closer last night there is definitely carbon build up in the divots, looks like they could easily have been there for a while

Also, just still thinking, with it being a 5 window trigger wheel and firing through the points, it would be strange for that problem to be isolated to just two cylinders because the relationship of all cylinders would be out.

You have a good point, but at the same time, the back 2 cylinders on these 20v engines were known to get quite a bit hotter than the front 3 because of the coolant paths. There are a lot of people that have done the Ghetto watter manifold, but then again, with talking to quite a few people last year(or 2 years ago I cant remember) they all said they never had a problem with the cooling issue.

Take your head and flip it over and check out the cooling jackets. if they seem to be scalled up badly with old burn coolant, then you may want to think about having the head dipped to clean it out completely.

Shawn,

After looking at the pictures of the head, they look exactly like mine did when I was having constant knock issues.

I actually found a piece of steel driven into head chamber sticking out! All I did was grind it down, smooth all the chambers out with some nice sand paper and a dremel, and threw it back on. Haven't had an issue since. The only thing I could figure out was if the tips of the plugs broke off when I was using single electrodes as an experiment. I dont remember any broke plugs though which was weird.

You better be in the 13s next year

AngryTaco wrote:Shawn,

After looking at the pictures of the head, they look exactly like mine did when I was having constant knock issues.

I actually found a piece of steel driven into head chamber sticking out! All I did was grind it down, smooth all the chambers out with some nice sand paper and a dremel, and threw it back on. Haven't had an issue since. The only thing I could figure out was if the tips of the plugs broke off when I was using single electrodes as an experiment. I dont remember any broke plugs though which was weird.

You better be in the 13s next year

Yeah, That was kind of the plan, but after the rings from cyl 3, which had zero signs of det, dropped out in pieces it became cheaper to just pick up a new block/head combo. And then next time I blow it up I should have enough spare parts to put together a 3rd motor out of two blowed up ones.

13's shouldn't be a problem soon

FINALLY got this uploaded from my friend's phone. This was the night before the motor came out. I decided we needed to go out and find something to have some fun with before down time. This was at ~17psi.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FQ2vdBiNao[/youtube]

HAHA! stupid ricers!, oh...wait... that used to be me!

DE80q wrote:HAHA! stupid ricers!, oh...wait... that used to be me!

I couldn't stop yelling "VTEC THIS!!!" Haha, guy was actually pretty cool although the car was definitely a little ricey.

Not gonna lie, I've installed my own fart can before

Make sure you put a sexy ass Volvo K24 on the new motor!

Why? holeset power on this one!

I know Shawn has been working on this. He's holding out on us.

rallyfreak202 wrote:I know Shawn has been working on this. He's holding out on us.

You would be right, that sneaky bastard lol

Yeah, he has been working on it slowly. I figure he will post an update soon. Maybe after im done my work for him...

It is true, some progress has been made, but still mostly in the planning/ordering stage so not really worth updating yet.

Give me just a couple more weeks

ghey

dana wrote:ghey

I was going to say something about you not even having an audi anymore...

but I'm happy to not be able to use that against you now

well you could really burn me now because i literally just walked in from rebuilding a honda transmission and preparing for a honda motor/trans swap.

dana wrote:well you could really burn me now because i literally just walked in from rebuilding a honda transmission and preparing for a honda motor/trans swap.

Cant really burn you for that. Honda's are fun toys to wind up to like 10k rpm and see what happens. There is a local team that takes factory cars, removes the rev limitor, interior, and exhaust and runs them on the strip. They sound more like sport bikes running down then a car. But they are putting down some good times.

i am just rebuilding the trans in amanda daily driver and swapping in a motor with lower miles in hopes that it burns less oil than gas with the new engine. Hate to say it, but they are good cars and are really easy to work on. They just dont do it for me at all.

Hey y'all I'm shawn's roommate, just for reference.
----

Shawn's no stranger to working on hondas

My '99 civic has a severe knock and is sitting in the grass after we did a head gasket job and a number of other things to keep it going.

If I replace it, could end up being a fun ghetto project...

Also I can personally vouch for Shawn's utter lack of devious plans. Nope no devious plans at all.

Also Shawn lets race the Audi and the Volvo right now. Put $50 on it?

anotherbrick wrote:Also Shawn lets race the Audi and the Volvo right now. Put $50 on it?

Whatever, it's coming along.

So I had today off, tried to have a good day in spite of the holiday. All they ever do is get in the way, I'd rather just get more paid time off and then I could actually accomplish things when I have time off instead of having everything shut down.

I'm trying to catch the Subaru back up on maint, already did front rotors/pads, so today the goal was to do some stuff on that. Still gotta do rear pads/rotors tomorrow but got a lot done. I've been plugging away at the Audi too, mostly inside stuff as I'm daylight limited but fun stuff should start showing up this next week and then it's mostly a matter of when Dave has (more) time to come help me assemble the block. I've never done bottom end assembly, and it seems pretty straight foreword, but if I can have a super qualified machinist there... yeah I think I might as well wait. I'll probably do the head myself, Dave has also been working his magic on it so I'm excited to get it back here soon. Then it's just a couple parts, a lot of wiring and back together time!

Anyway, I celebrated 'Turkey Day' my way with a little Wild Turkey 101. Once I was nice and toasty (it was cold out!) replaced this guy as well as the H20 pump, idlers, tensioner and VC gaskets while I was in there. Didn't do the crank/cam seals, no real leaks there anyway. I was only 30K over the service interval, feeling much better about the Subaru now.


Thanks for reading along everybody.

Thanks for the props there Shawn. I have your manifold all repaired, just need to work a little "magic" on it to make it worth the effort.

The head will be worked on here ASAP

Glad you decided to do some work on the subi, it was in need of some attention.

Okay, well if anyone's wondering, this build is now progressing to the next logical step...



So the plan: Try and actually push the 20v towards the limits of my stock exhaust mani/mostly stock head and current turbo combo. I'm hoping E85, knock sensing, factory flywheel triggers and COP will give me the ability to do so reliably

Current build specs:
5 best pistons from two MC1s
My 'old' block (crank still in it, leaving OE main bearings)
Hone
New rod bearings
New rings

'New' MC1 head
Exhaust side gasket matched/ported by Dave (DE80Q)
Big 'ol piece of glass and sandpaper resurfacing
My 'old' Intake/exhaust valves hand lapped in

Siemens Deka 80lb injectors
Megasquirt 1 v2.2 board
"Monster Board" ad on by yours truly to support JBPerformance divider board running OEM 135/1 flywheel sensors/distributor as cam sensor, boost control, launch control, flat shift, meth etc. etc.
COP ignition using later 1.8t 4 wire individual coils
Gasket matched/brazed exhaust manifold also done by Dave (DE80Q)
034 Phelonic Intake manifold spacer
VR6 throttle body
3" Downpipe to match exhaust
Holset H1C/K26 housing hybrid @~25-30psi

Things I still need to decide on:
Fuel pump(s?)
Cam/gear (probably won't happen immediately due to $$)

First I needed an engine for all this goodness, so I originally bought another complete longblock MC1 from a guy on MG. Well, let's just say it didn't show up in 'ideal' condition...
Cylinders 3+4



Thankfully the guy refunded me the purchase price, although I still got boned on shipping. End usable parts: 2, maybe 3 pistons and the head (valves were trash too).

First thing's first, Siemens Deka 80lb injectors



Then I built a harness integrating the factory MAC11 wiring for the VR sensors because it's wicked shielded and already the right length. The only thing I need to finish up now is the coil wiring; the signal wires are wrapped in this harness already but I need to do power/grounds when I can have it in the car to measure and then just splice/heatshrink and wrap it




Factory VR sensors and factory Knock sensor which will get hooked up to respective inputs @factory location on firewall. The knock sensor will be feeding a set of knock phones built per Marc Swanson of EFI Express' instructions. CANNOT WAIT TO TUNE COP W/ E85 AND KNOCK PHONES!!!!!


I 'rebuilt' my lifters and I CANNOT WAIT for a tick-tick-tick free 20v!

f

Valve trains and my collection of pistons and rods waiting for dis assembly/cleaning (done, just no pics)


Clean valves


Annnndddd it's gonna be a busy few weeks if I'm gonna be driving this thing home for Xmas


Thanks for reading along everyone!