Nick's 1991 Audi 200 20VTQ Avant - Sold

[Mcstiff]

Yeah, agreed! I thought that is what you were saying but was not sure.

[20VAvant]

Alright fellas, I need some advice/help.
There has been what feels like a bunch of slop in almost all aspects of the car...
I know the shocks should be replaced. Is it worth buying new lower control arms and replace that bushing and ball joint all at once?

I guess my main question, on a car with 170K miles, what bushings need to be replaced?

The transmission mounts, differential mounts, and motor mounts are going to be replaced. What else should be done while have those guys apart?

Also, I have a nice leak on the passenger side of my differential. Having a hard time finding the correct seal to fix this.. any one done this or have a part number?

I know this is alot of questions at once, but I want to order a bunch of stuff and try to save on shipping...

[vt10vt]

Honestly, if you can afford to, or wait and afford it, I would say since you're in there it's easiest to just do all four subframe bushings, wheel bearings, control arm/balljoints, and strut top mounts. If you're going to do some on a 170k car, it's worth doing it all, plus it's actually easier to get to everything that way, just lift the car by the frame, unbolt tie rod ends, and then it's just the 3 bolts on each top mount and 4 subframe bolts and you can pull the whole front suspension out as a unit. This makes replacing everything much easier and (I think) is faster than wrestling the uprights in and out of the car with the subframe in place. I did everything I just listed in my front suspension plus new soft brake lines and rebuilt calipers and the difference is night and day, SO much better

Just my 2c!

[20VAvant]

I think I will take your advice! Going to do the rear first, get a few more paychecks then do the front. Maybe coilovers while I'm at it?

Here's how tonight went.






This might explain some play in the rear suspension...

Taking my time and pulling the entire rear subframe. Need to pull the differential but i'm afraid to do it by myself so that will wait till a buddy is around

Parking brake never worked, or actually worked too well and would lock up. Tried rebuilding but with no avail a few months ago.
New calipers, bushings, seals, mounts, hopefully shocks, springs, and coilover parts as well.

Next project is the same up front except pulling the transmission and putting in a Southbend Clutch.

One problem I'm facing tonight is the rear wheel speed sensor, any tricks or tools to get this guy out???

[vt10vt]

I think I will take your advice! Going to do the rear first, get a few more paychecks then do the front. Maybe coilovers while I'm at it?

Damn! Nice, fast progress! I went opposite order from you, front end is done rear needs loving next, and coilovers are the one 'while I'm in there...' thing I missed so I'm jealous you're getting to do it all in one shot. Keep it up!

[20VAvant]

Time for a little update:
Instead of going to Carlisle this weekend without the 200, I decided to knock out a big chunk of work that needs to be done so I can join all of you next year!

I removed all the rear suspension and pulled the differential.

The diff has a leaky seal on the passenger side axle, going to replace both seals while its out.
Ordered an Apikol rear diff mount and diff carrier bushings.
Ordered new subframe bushings, inner control arm bushings, and ball joints with arms.

Next to order:
Bilstein Sport Shocks
Eibach shocks
A1 racing coilover parts

Also kep getting low tire pressure in the driver rear, spotted a screw. The car sat for 2-3 years so the tires have some cracking. May be getting new wheels/rims soon as well...suggestions?

[loxxrider]

Nice work! Glad to see another 200 getting treated the way it should

I don't have any suggestions, but I would if you could give a better idea of what you have in mind.

When you do the coilovers, consider doing the needle bearings and helper springs as well. Those things make the setup more refined, complete, and without any faults other than the need to shorten the struts/strut housings if you want to go lower and have more suspension travel.

[20VAvant]

I like BBS alot, but that is some $$
I'd like to get 16-17" and run a lower profile tire. I like the fitment it has stock, but wouldn't be against a little more tucked
I'm only doing the rear coilover setup now, same helper spring and needle bearing needed back there?

[loxxrider]

You could use a helper spring in the back for sure, but the needle bearing is not needed. Of course, you need a spring coupler as well (just a piece of metal which holds the normal spring and the helper spring concentric to one another). These things aren't necessary, but they are nice to have. It'll help avoid clunks and will avoid the spring rubbing on the threaded sleeve's threads. Also, do not cheap out on the snap rings. They are like $10 from Acron I think. Make sure to get the ones mentioned in my DIY. Phil can attest to why you need/want them

I think you should go for some 17's so you can fit decent brakes if you want to in the future and the added sidewall rigidity is nice. The fenders on these cars are big enough too, so 17's are good for filling them! Some BBS LM's would look awesome.

[20VAvant]

Small Update:





Everything was cleaned up (to an extent) and then repainted to help prevent rusting. Everything looks pretty well and no rust problems that I can see on the frame at all.

Parts are starting to come for everything.
I made an excel sheet for the rear end build and will do so for the front with part cost and part numbers. I feel like I will regret this after seeing how much I just spent on the rear end alone

Here is what was ordered for the Rear, so far...

Apikol Differential Mount - Rear
Apikol Differential Mount - Front Outer
Axle Shaft Seal Rear Right
Axle Shaft Seal Rear Left
Wheel Bearing Rear x2
Rear Subframe Bushing x4
Wheel Hub Rear x2
Eibach Spring 6" x 2.5" 550LB x2
KONI Shock Rear x2
Upper Track Rod - Right
Upper Track Rod - Left
Control Arm Bushing - Inner Rear x2
HyperCo Take Up Spring 2.5ID x4" 25LB x 2
A1 5" Coil Over Sleeve 1.980"ID x2
A1 Coil Over Nut for 2.5"ID Spring x2
Bicknell Coil Over Top for 2.5"ID Spring x2
Brake Caliper Rear Left
Brake Caliper Rear Right

Going to make a list and start ordering parts for the front soon. Can't wait to get this thing on the road again!

*Edit - Went with Bilstiens instead, ordered adjustable KONI that were meant for factory spring, oops..

[20VAvant]

Small update:

Replaced both axle seals, didn't want to mess with the front seal if it is working

Both rear wheel bushings and hubs have been pushed out, waiting on snap rings to put new bearings and new hubs in. Also spent a few hours with the sand blaster cleaning up brake carrier brackets and shock parts and repainted them along with the rear hubs.

Koni Sport Shocks for the rear and helper springs are at the house, sitting at work is a killer.

All of the coilover parts are here and ready to be assembled.

Apikol Rear Subframe bushings come this week sometime, and I hope to have the entire rear end put together on coilovers by the end of this week.

Ordered all coilover parts for the front with exception of shocks as of yet. Need to order bushings up front, motor mounts, transmission mounts, and a new clutch sometime within the next month.

[themagellan]

Nice work man, slow and steady seems to be the correct path for the audi builds lol. Can't wait to see your full coilover setup - at some point i'm sure i'll take the plunge

[20VAvant]

I can't understand how anyone can afford to not go slow and steady. $$$$$ Haha.
I'll post pics of the coilovers later!

[loxxrider]

I think its going on a fast and steady rate! Keep it up dude This car is going to be nearly perfect soon (mechanically at least).

[20VAvant]

Nice work man, slow and steady seems to be the correct path for the audi builds lol. Can't wait to see your full coilover setup - at some point i'm sure i'll take the plunge

Just gotta follow Chris's write-up and it's no problem

If needed I can send you a list of updated part #s, prices, and supplier info

Anyone have opinions on take-up spring location? I've read around and it looks as if it doesn't matter where it is. Anyone have better experience either way?

[loxxrider]

They should perform their function either way, but one thing to consider would be the chance of interference with the strut gland nut and the spring coupler if the helper is up top. Presumably, if they are at the bottom, they won't have that opportunity.

[20VAvant]

Thanks for the info Chris!
Upon looking at what Chris said, buddy of mine also noticed that when 'fully compressed' the spring coupler was hitting the bottom perch before the spring would shut entirely. Fixed that on the lathe in 5 min.

Realized I orderd the wrong type of shocks, Koni Sport had a perch for the factory spring on it.
Returned, ordered Bilsteins.

I can't reach Akron bearing at the moment to order snap rings... anyone know the size?

Hopefully everything will be good to go this weekend, but I said that last weekend too.

All the covers and guards have been blasted and repainted. Will probably need help remembering where everything went though...

[pilihp2]

Make sure to get the ones mentioned in my DIY. Phil can attest to why you need/want them

To be fair... I used the akron snap rings. I just installed them over the pre existing stock spring perch rings.
Don't do what I did.

[20VAvant]

If I shouldn't do what you did, what should I do then??!? Haha.
What happend to yours?

[pilihp2]

I got some MAAAAAD low goin on



The stock shock will have a groove with a pre-existing ring already in it that is MUCH smaller than it needs to be. That rings needs to be removed and the Akron ring needs to be installed into that groove. I didn't comprehend that and had the akron ring on top of the ring that was already there. Somehow it lasted like 15k miles. But once that small ring let go it destroyed the akron ring and allowed my spring perch to rub against the axle and that corner of the car was essentially just sitting on the bottomed out shock.
Sucked.

It somehow DIDN'T rub like this either. Hah.

[20VAvant]

I got some MAAAAAD low goin on

Gotcha'
I will make sure to order those snap rings! Haha
Luckily that didn't damage anything else!

Called to order. Part #3100-0200 I guess has been changed.
Will update the actual part number when I get my parts.
I suppose it's meant to be 2" ID snap ring?

Also reminded me of this!
This is how a real car is dumped...
http://jalopnik.com/5886063/how-not-to-lower-your-car

[loxxrider]

Let me know when you confirm fitment and I'll update the DIY here. Sorry the Konis didn't have a way to mount the coilover sleeve. I never knew what the deal was on that which is why I can't really give advice as far as a Koni setup goes. I'll write you a response or give you a call about the engine stuff when I get a minute. Been a little busy the past few days!

[20VAvant]

Well tonight went good and bad, as always.

Bushing from Apikol came in, good news-they fit my subframe, bad news-the ID of the alum sleeve is way too big for the bolts on the car. Will be making some that fit this weeked.


Brakes-Remans came, look very nice, I just hope they work.


Wheel bearings and hub went in, on one side.... Learned how to destroy a bearing by not supporting the inner side while pressing the hub in. Mistakes that make you learn, oh well. New one on order.

Otherwise it looks good and I hope to start getting some stuff back together. Shocks and some other small parts should be here tomorrow.

[loxxrider]

Do you mind listing the dimensions needed for the inner sleeves on those bushings? That way we could inform Brendan at Apikol so he can fix them for us T44 people, or we can make them ourselves. I might look into getting a mini-lathe soon

[20VAvant]

Little update.


Bushing on Right is the stock Apikol Bushing for UrS4 | one on Left is one I had made today - 10mm or .4" ID

The beauty of working at a machine shop!

HAAS turning center

Rear coilover setup

Stock circlip removed and Akron snap ring put on, fits perfectly!