Pops' 1997 S6 - 07k BLK WDW

[Jamo]

Why do you need to rev to 8500 with the 95.5? have you ever been in a 95.5 turbo stroker? there is no reason to go above 7500 the power delivery does not require it to rev that high

[chaloux]

For fun of course. We won't be going that high. I think we'll be going to 7500-8000 and keep things family friendly.

[quattro87]

The way I see it using the 92.8 crank and 60mm rods that the rod ratio would come in at 1.72 which would be a very friendly ratio for 8k or better as long as the head was worked somewhat....and yes I've been in Hank's car with a 95.5 stoker being boosted with a HTA GT35R at 8.5K on E85. Although awesome describes it some, scarey also comes to mind!!

[Hank]

Jamo, have you ever been in a 2.6l that revs to 8500? There is no reason not to. If the rod ratio is identical or better than 2.2L motors, it should have the same longevity and driving characteristics as a 2.2L. 2.6l is a bigger motor than a 2.2, but it is still a small engine. Strokers allow for the next size up turbo to be used and retain the same powerband. If you want torque, buy a v8.

[Ronald G Wainwright+]

From what I have seen a stroker can achieve a higher tq than hp..... Or thereabouts.

[Hank]

With what turbo on the 2.6L? you can get more torque than hp on a 2.2l or 1.8t for that matter. Perhaps you are saying you can get more than a 2.2l. 2.6l isn't what you would call a big block.

Yea, a 2.6l isn't needing to run to 8500 if is choked by a small 30r, but most people aren't building 5k dollar bottom ends to make 450whp. You can easily do that with a roded AAN with power from 3700-8000. They they are built to spool turbos faster and make 3582r turbos spool like 3076 turbos but make 3582 power.

[Ronald G Wainwright+]

Ron, you can use aba rods (159mmx21mm) but you give up the extra mm, plus add weight to the piston. By going 160x20, you get rid of the extra weight in the crown of the piston, plus you gain a little more rod. I had a run of 160mm rods made specifically for the stroker tall decks. They basically work with the 95.5 with slightly modified 9a pistons or with the 92.8mm with 9a pistons and a slight decking of the block. The tall decks end up being closer to 236.75mm decks, thus the reason we are able to get away with a longer 160 rod.

This is what I got,

Eurovan Deck Height: 236mm
Eurovan Stroke: 95.5mm
Pauter Rod Length: 159mm
Pauter Rod Wrist pin diameter: 21mm
Rod/Stroke Ratio: 1.665:1
Compression height of pistons: 29.25mm
Piston Dish Volume: -11cc
Piston Bore: 83mm
Total Displacement:
Compression Ratio: 8.9:1

[Jamo]

Jamo, have you ever been in a 2.6l that revs to 8500? There is no reason not to. If the rod ratio is identical or better than 2.2L motors, it should have the same longevity and driving characteristics as a 2.2L. 2.6l is a bigger motor than a 2.2, but it is still a small engine. Strokers allow for the next size up turbo to be used and retain the same powerband. If you want torque, buy a v8.

No not 8.5 9.5k with dry sump but that was a scandi, see my sig. Been running a stroker for 4 years now I know the powerband and characteristics quite well
V8? not this side of the channel

[Hank]

Fair enough, so why wouldn't you want to run to 8500 then Jamo? I have been running a tall deck 95.5 for a while now too, and while it is an improvement on the 2.2L, you still need to rev it above 8500 to make over 600whp with a powerband broad. If you personally like 450whp cars with boost at 3500rpm, the tall deck with a 95.5 is an awesome motor. Turbo's sized properly to have full boost by 3500rpm will run out of steam at ~7500rpm on a 2.6L. I get that, I just don't get the rational of spending an extra 4-5 grand building up a stroker to get a powerband that is available with a 2.2L for a fraction of the cost. See, you pick up about 600rpm worth of spool for the extra .3L of displacement but you limit yourself to 7000-7500 with a small turbo. I would rather have a 500whp 2.2L making power from 4000-8500 than a 500whp 2.6L making power from 3400-7000. Better yet, I would rather have a 700whp 2.6L making power from 4000-8500!!! Can't make a 2.2L get 4500 rpm worth of 600-700whp powerband without the expense of drysump, cams, solid lifters, $$.

The way I see it, the hardware on the 20vt starts getting into trouble at 8500 rpm. The problematic parts above 8500 rpm (headwork, lifters, cams, lifters, oil pump) don't care if they are on a 2.2L or a 2.6L. By increasing displacement, you are getting "free" powerband down low, but still hitting that same rev ceiling of 8500. It is the best of both worlds.

[PRY4SNO]

Ronald G Wainwright+ wrote:[/quote]

Ron, you can use aba rods (159mmx21mm) but you give up the extra mm, plus add weight to the piston. By going 160x20, you get rid of the extra weight in the crown of the piston, plus you gain a little more rod. I had a run of 160mm rods made specifically for the stroker tall decks. They basically work with the 95.5 with slightly modified 9a pistons or with the 92.8mm with 9a pistons and a slight decking of the block. The tall decks end up being closer to 236.75mm decks, thus the reason we are able to get away with a longer 160 rod.

This is what I got,

Eurovan Deck Height: 236mm
Eurovan Stroke: 95.5mm
Pauter Rod Length: 159mm
Pauter Rod Wrist pin diameter: 21mm
Rod/Stroke Ratio: 1.665:1
Compression height of pistons: 29.25mm
Piston Dish Volume: -11cc
Piston Bore: 83mm
Total Displacement:
Compression Ratio: 8.9:1[/quote]

That would get you even with the deck surface on a tall deck motor, but the reality is that with a .062" thick headgasket, you need the piston to sit .022"(~.5mm) proud out of the block to get a .040" piston to head clearance for good squish. This combined with the fact that tall decks end up being closer to 236.75mm vs the 236mm even, you end up being able to squeeze a 160mm rod in there and still clean up the deck of the block. Your senario will work just fine, but you will end up taking almost 1mm off the block to get the right piston to head clearance with teh CR you desire. HTH

[Hank]

Also remember, if you go down to a 20mm wrist pin, just like the stock pin height, or the pins people are pushing easily into the 175whp/pin, you are able to move up the wrist pin a radius of 1mm(.5mm) without compromising the crown of the piston, the ring packages or ring lands when compared to a 9a piston.

[PRY4SNO]

Love threads like this, some great reading. I'm sure I'll be referencing it at some point down the road.

[chaloux]

"Marcel, you have sent $**** to Nathan Iroz!"

ooooooooooooooooooooooooooohshit.

160mm rods
header
t3-vband adapter
tial mvr44
downpipe
arp head studs for tall block

[Mushasho!]

And that's how It's done

[my2000apb]

oh snap its on now

[chaloux]

huntin' huntin' huntin'! Need me some 92-93 Eurovan block.

What will make the Scat rods sell? $425?

[Draky]

Wish I could get a stroker put together... Love me some torque!

Looking forward to reading more on this thread/build!

[Audi_CQ]

I have been running a tall deck 95.5 for a while now

Running on the street or track?
If track: 8500 over time on track without any problems?

[Jamo]

This build isn't a track car, if it was the advice on here would change to suit

[Audi_CQ]

This build isn't a track car, if it was the advice on here would change to suit

I know it's a street car, but wondered if it was used as a track day car. Only way to use the car properly :-)

[chaloux]

Yes it will be used at the track - road track, not drag! We would have been this year already if it wasn't for the dang blowup, hah.

Hank said teaser pix will be coming soon

[my2000apb]

yay for new motor stuff

[chaloux]

Small update on some of the stuff we've been up to.

Spoke with a tech at JE instead of a salesperson, which was nice. Basically, det det det det deeeeeetooooonaaaaaaaaaaaation. He went so far as to suggest our plugs may have been one step too hot, but I'm pretty sure FR5 DTCs weren't the cause of the problem. He also suggested that the main event probably happened early on and damaged the motor early, and it was only a matter of time. This makes sense - between running with the QSV closed a few times and early tuning mishaps (or perhaps a combination of both) this seems likely. Of course once it was all tuned it wasn't happening anymore, but by that time the damage was done. The tech just kept saying, "this thing got HOT" - he almost seemed impressed (sad lol). So at this point we're looking to get a new set of 9A style pistons either from JE or Weisco, whichever is cheaper.

We also sent the QSV off to Sound Performance to check. It appears that the valve has slightly bent. I (finally) spoke to Reid on the phone and he was very helpful and said that they would very likely send out a new Super HD version. I also told him it was worth 950rpm in this application and he was pretty surprised. Happy of course. I then emailed him a graph to check out. Hopefully that returns in short order, but I know Marc had a hard time getting it from them.

We've also sourced a 92' Eurovan motor. $500, local-ish to us. Once we have the block we can get it machined and ready to go for when the pistons and rods etc. arrive from Hank.

So yeah, boring stuff without pictures. Putter putter putter...

[UrSobsessed]

Good to hear the update. Your thread was already interesting, now I've even more interested as I've been thinking tall deck stroker is all up in my future!

[loxxrider]

Not boring at all, thanks for the updates.