The Project Pad

My next fun car will be an old Porsche 911. Paid in cash. So probably not until I die.

Thoughts? Am I "pedastalling" here? These are things I learned from my 4k. Why try to turn a 4 door sedan into what I really want - a light rwd car. Old Datsuns/z cars are nice too but they just don't have the same allure. Power was fun in the 4k and I love that car but I'm glad it's gone so I can start saving $$.

I understand your pain. Last night I watched the urban outlaw video and the episode of Jay Leno's garage where he had Singer as the guest/car. Its no wonder values on the older 911's have gone up ridiculously in the past few years. Best of luck to you.

Damn those Singers!

I want one but I'd rather buy a cheap house and rent it out, lol

Save quick, values are only going up faster! Its insane the amount even the 80's 911's have gone up in the past 10 years.

911s aren't that great. Nice to drive, yes, but there are better choices out there for the money... By far
People love them for their mechanical feel. Go drive an 80s ///M car and you'll get the same nostalgic feeling for a fraction of the price and you can power slide all you want without having to worry about the back end becoming the front.

rwd car? Porsche? Learned stuff from the 4K? How about a 944 with AAN or 07K swap?

Have you driven similarly prepared 240Zs and old 911s?

I'm a bit biased, but for the difference in current pricing on these, you could have among the best Zs in the world for the price of a meh 911!

Turbo swaps are cheap and easy on the Zs, and that's not even going down the RB swap road.

Hmm, 07K 240Z. There's tons of room to do it, and people's heads would explode, even on Hybridz.org.

Good luck on finding a nice 911. My dad has almost endless funds and has been on the search for nearly two years trying to find one that is restorable. I vote for whoever said 5cyl in the 240z.

280z with a 07k and a Vella rossa body kit to make it look like a ferrari

^This, with a whale tail!

Skyline.

Dutchbroracer wrote:Good luck on finding a nice 911. My dad has almost endless funds and has been on the search for nearly two years trying to find one that is restorable. I vote for whoever said 5cyl in the 240z.

No offense, but he's not looking in the right place then. Sure, prices have gotten pretty out of control, but there are still deals to be had and fine shape, restoration worthy cars in the $10-15k are not all that hard to come by. Again, you are going to pay more for it than you would have a few years ago.

Matt, 911's are great and SO FUN to work on/restore. Anything pre 964 is going to be terrifyingly simple (seriously, it's kind of scary), but you won't be able to afford to work on it as often as other marques. If you don't care about perfect originality and just want a nice driver that won't appreciate like crazy, once you pay the entrance fee they can be pretty affordable as a weekend/nice weather car. You will be disapointed in the speed. Suspension upgrade options abound and can sort of be done on a budget. Expect high prices on stuff that you are used to being pretty cheap, like bushings, ball joints and the like, but availability isn't bad (in the states at least). Expect to pay $12-15K for a later engine swap (just a 3.6 assembled engine, not ecu, wiring etc.), and almost the same for a rebuild and the older engines don't make a ton of power, and even in a light car are only 'kinda quick' in a straight line.

If you really want one, start meeting 911 people now. You'll pay a premium on forums but like most cars, once you get in a group there's a lot of "so and so knows so and so who knows so and so who has a car for sale." And unlike an Audi or most anything, if you want to spend a bunch of cash building a cool car there is a lot of money to be made.

None taken, we don't buy anything outside of California, that could play a part in it. Maybe prices are different here on the west coast, but 10-15k wont get you much here.

Anyways good luck with your search, hope you find something up there.

Thanks Jared. With unlimited funds I think it'd be pretty easy to find a few already-restored cars (I've found a few in the 100k range... yikes!).

I dunno. I just know that it won't be an old Audi. Something that appreciates would be nice. For a summer car AWD isn't necessary. I'm really going after "the feel" of the drive. I think I would have come close to what I wanted with the 4k by the spring time, but as y'all know that didn't happen. Ross is doing essentially what I had in mind anyway so I get to live vicariously through him for a bit.

I'd be looking for a 964 or 930 I think. Alternatively, a Z car with an 07k sounds pretty delicious. That may just be the route I take. I can basically get a super mint Z car for the entry price into the Porsche stuff. Sigh. Cars.

loxxrider wrote:911s aren't that great. Nice to drive, yes, but there are better choices out there for the money... By far
People love them for their mechanical feel. Go drive an 80s ///M car and you'll get the same nostalgic feeling for a fraction of the price and you can power slide all you want without having to worry about the back end becoming the front.

BMWs don't come close. The best approximation I can think of for mechanical feel is 107-chassis Mercedes. But those are nowhere near enthusiast vehicles unless you are a Farmer's Market enthusiast.

911s have a certain something to them. They have an old-school Germanic solidity to the things you touch like the doorhandles and the feel of the door as you open and close it and the like. They have an awesome driving position and the pedals pivot at the correct end. The steering is... awesome. Very well weighted, very well damped, but never numb or stiff.

Unfortunately, the price of entry is going up at 10-15% per year, so the best way to save up for one is to buy one right now.

Or you could build a Z with its very capable L-series inline 6. They go pretty well, NA or turbocharged....

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hi7bMwdZUQo[/youtube]

This one's NA.

Dutchbroracer wrote:None taken, we don't buy anything outside of California, that could play a part in it. Maybe prices are different here on the west coast, but 10-15k wont get you much here.

Anyways good luck with your search, hope you find something up there.

Looking only in CA will definitely affect your choices, one thing I'd say is that these cars are primarily summer cars, even a lot of 911's up here have escaped rust. That said, there are plenty of rust buckets out there, especially around the battery trays.

You are definitely in the worst place to look for a 964 though, since that's where a certain company that is buying them up by the dozens is located.

I "get" the 911. I also get the E30 M3. Cars with soul. I don't really understand the desire for an old z. To me they are somewhat less interesting than American muscle cars. Did you considered any other European marques in your search for the right car?

GTJeff wrote:I "get" the 911. I also get the E30 M3. Cars with soul.

Probably cheaper to buy a 930.

I've been looking at buying a 6-cylinder M3, either a '95 to rallycross or an E46 to replace the Volvo (because M engine in E46). The price is getting into Pete-can-swing-the-loan territory. Was searching Autotrader, noticed that the 4 cylinder option wasn't greyed out. A dealer within 300mi had an E30?

http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale ... 1=BMW&mmt=[BMW[M3[]][]]&modelCode1=M3&searchRadius=300&showcaseListingId=388181753&showcaseOwnerId=595712&startYear=1981&Log=0

FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWK. Cheapest one was 44,9. A dealer in Cincy has one that they're asking 110 for. 110 THOUSAND, Riggs, not 110 dollars.

I remember when these were $20k cars and we thought that was crazy.

Pete, have you driven an 80s ///M car? Or better yet, the euro version of one? They are a whole different ballgame. My 6 is as mechanical as it gets. It's simply fantastic. I've driven 911s and I agree with the solid feel. BMW isn't 100% there, but the 80s cars were damned close. They have that bank vault door close feel like most older Porsches do.

I could sell a few of my cars and buy a few Porsches to replace them, yet I don't. I think that speaks volumes. The value isn't there in my opinion. If you want something raw, mechanical, fun, and still easy and cheap enough to work on, get an old M.

I think some of you are very mistaken on 911 values. Or stuck in last year's pricing. A good one cannot be had for average Joe money anymore. You can still get into an M5 or M6 for under 20k, but this is about the last year for that. Mark my words. They're steadily appreciating in this market. Value right now is very good compared to Porsche. Just go drive an e28 or e24 M which isn't a total dog and report back. If you can find a slightly modified euro (suspension and exhaust) , you will see what it's all about.

loxxrider wrote:Pete, have you driven an 80s ///M car? Or better yet, the euro version of one? They are a whole different ballgame. My 6 is as mechanical as it gets. It's simply fantastic.

Well, not as such, no. I did get to experience an E30 M3 from the passenger seat at an autocross, back when they were $20k used cars. Looked like it look a lot of steering motion to do anything, like the standard E30s. Slow steering is my biggest gripe about 80s BMWs in general, but I figure having bus-like steering is part of the BMW Experience

One of the coolest things I like about 911s is how matter of fact they are. The shifter boot looks for all the world like someone put a CV boot on the floor and stuck a lever in it. You sit bolt upright, even me with my lankitude. There's no bullshit.

I've driven 2 911's in my life; a '66 911s a customer's car after a tuneup. 90 came up quick at the top of 3rd. The other an '87 SC I drove around a little bit before we pulled the engine and swapped the pistons and cylinders . To me there is no other dream car. I grew up driving beetles; owned 25, drove 15 of those. The rear engine power delivery is like nothing else. I drive what I drive now for practicality. If I could afford it, it's the only car I would consider. I applaud you sincerely, that's all.

Basically what I'm saying is that I don't expect to be in a quick/fun car for a while because I've committed to paying cash and the car(s) I have in mind are all $$$, which isn't growing on trees for me at the moment.

For now I just keep thinking about what the F I'm going to replace the A6 TDI with. I'd like a diesel awd wagon, which makes my options more limited than finding a clean Porsche.

loxxrider wrote:I think some of you are very mistaken on 911 values. Or stuck in last year's pricing. A good one cannot be had for average Joe money anymore.

Gonna go out on a limb and assume "some of you" means me

If anyone is serious, feel free to shoot me a PM, there's one an hour from me for $13k in driver condition with a lot of recent work done, not really "restored" but a solid driver and good restoration/restomod candidate. There's one two buildings over for $8k complete with a cool options package that is rust free but the motor is out and has "issues." I'll have another one for sale here soon for $15k, again, driver condition, no rust, almost all original euro car. Again, none of these are long hoods or restored, but they are cars you can get into and slowly start restoring.

But there's one I won't tell you about because too many would cry at the price It's all in who you know, just like anything else.