The Project Pad

Hello all! I've been lurking for a while now and am on here daily since I picked up my first Audi and I've been meaning to start a project thread for it. I'm a college student in western maryland and I'm from right outside burlington, vt. I know a couple people on here already so hopefully they'll stop in

Anyways, onto the car. I recently traded my turbo Corrado project for a 1989 Audi 200tq Avant from near Hartford, CT that I found on here. My parents (read: saints) towed the 'rado down with a dolley and drove the Audi 4 hours back with zero issues :mrgreen: So I came home for a week and spent it basically just working on the 200 to get it ready to come back to school in MD (~8-9hr drive). It got all new rotors and pads, 3 out of 4 calipers were stuck and had no dustboots at all so I pulled them apart and did a ghetto rebuild on them using some trimmed VW dust boots (temporary fix, need to find rebuild kits). Did plugs, wires, fuel filter, cap, rotor, CIS injector 0-rings (injectors leak anyway) and a couple other little things down here at school too, hoping to keep do a bit more preventative maintenance before doing some fun stuff but the car is in GREAT shape for a 22yr old, 250k+ Audi. On to the pics!

In my driveway the morning before the trip to md, fresh windshield


A NY service station to prove its moving under its own power


I finally have a daily turbo car :-) :mrgreen:


Pretty sure it's bone stock although I found a mbc in the top line to the wastegate, which I don't think is right...


Gross piston calipers, this one is so badly scored I might need to replace it


Right now the plan is to slowly get it to 100% before the fun starts. I just added a new turn signal in the front bumper, passenger's side mirror, and 2 regulators (rf and lr). I also worked to finish putting some of the trim back together but I really need to find a 200 in a yard around here for a bunch of little things to get her 100% happy. Then I need to do a timing belt and water pump (hopefully not an oil pump too...) and all those belts and then the fun can start :-) I'm a fuel rail, AN line/fittings and an air temp sensor away from having a full megasquirt setup which will most likely start as a fuel only and then will get distributor based spark control or I will upgrade to a newer version with better spark control.

Updates will continue whether they suck or not :wrench:

Welcome!

Good to see another 20vt T44 getting some love. Keep us updated.

And... now on to the questions
1. Oil pressure; when cold it's great, around 2bar on the factory gauge at idle, but when warm it will drop to almost nothing, enough to trigger the alarm when at idle, but as long as I'm in gear it remains within reason. Please don't say oil pump! haha they are stupid expensive, at least at GAP.

2. Struts/shocks as well as springs are interchangeable between 200's and URS4's correct? I've read, and am 99% sure, just want someone to confirm my research

3. I've had a weird no-start problem. The 2x's it's happened, everything electrical will work, except that the starter won't get a signal. The fuel pump will turn on and the starter relay will click, but nothing. And both times this has happened, it sounds like there's a flasher relay clicking in the dash above the radio but I don't know what it could possibly be :?

4. Where do you guys usually buy your parts? I've been using German Auto Parts but they don't have a lot of stuff. Blauparts seems okay but again, are missing some stuff I would expect them to have, any suggestions?

5. Wastegate ports: I know standalone guys only use the bottom port and leave the top open, but when I got mine it had a boost controller on the top vacuum line. Does this do anything? Because it doesn't make as much boost as it should, I've been looking for leaks but I haven't found any but the car only makes 1.1bar on the factory gauge, 3-5psi on my boost gauge (admittedly there may be a leak in that line throwing off the reading).

-Shawn C.

peterpeterson wrote:Welcome!

Good to see another 20vt T44 getting some love. Keep us updated.

Will do! I've been through your project thread a few times and it's an inspiration for this project (except with EFI :-) )

-Shawn C.

check the wiring down by the starter, it can get pretty corroded and grimey.
autohouseaz is good too for parts

vt10vt wrote:

peterpeterson wrote:Welcome!

Good to see another 20vt T44 getting some love. Keep us updated.

Will do! I've been through your project thread a few times and it's an inspiration for this project (except with EFI :-) )

-Shawn C.

Glad there is some useful information there. I have another update that I'll be posting later.

I'm getting to know CIS all too well. So if EFI isn't in the near future we can get your FI working as it should. Remember CIS is pretty reliable and useful for power levels around 250bhp.

Umm, if both your gauge and light agree...

Make sure no huge oil leaks first.

Has anyone been 'into' this car(oil pan off, head off?). The MBC could be a bad sign, of someone with enough knowledge to really feck it up.

You can 'inspect' the oil pump. Inside it should be gorgeous, no scoring etc.

I'm thinking that you should find another 20vt motor, they are sooo cheap. I have one in the garage that dumped the belt just sitting, and it's yours if you want to ship it.

Or drive it until it dies.

Rebuilding a 20vt is like throwing money into a bonfire. Pointless. Others will disagree, but $ to $, grab another used one.

Ian

my2000apb wrote:check the wiring down by the starter, it can get pretty corroded and grimey.
autohouseaz is good too for parts

Yeah, I think my next day off is going to have to be dedicated to going through every ground and exposed electrical connection with a wire brush to eliminate that as a potential problem for troubleshooting in the future. Also I've read there's a connector under the passenger side carpet that tends to go bad too so I'm going to check on that as well. And thanks for the tip, I've used autohousaz for vw parts but I didn't know they stock audi parts too :thanks:

I agree with Ian, 20vt's can be had for pretty cheap. The MC2 holds up really well after lots of miles. Don't be afraid of a high mileage swap.

iedawkin wrote:Umm, if both your gauge and light agree...

Make sure no huge oil leaks first.

Has anyone been 'into' this car(oil pan off, head off?). The MBC could be a bad sign, of someone with enough knowledge to really feck it up.

You can 'inspect' the oil pump. Inside it should be gorgeous, no scoring etc.

I'm thinking that you should find another 20vt motor, they are sooo cheap. I have one in the garage that dumped the belt just sitting, and it's yours if you want to ship it.

Or drive it until it dies.

Rebuilding a 20vt is like throwing money into a bonfire. Pointless. Others will disagree, but $ to $, grab another used one.

Ian

Yeah that's how I feel about it, I was pretty positive the mbc was way off base I may have to take you up on that offer though, the car has 280k (iirc, it got a newer cluster at some point) and it might still be on the original block/pump. Honestly, if it comes to doing an oil pump, that plus timing belt and H20 pump, I could do all that for ~$300 I think, but a newer block would probably be a bit better option

From your list:
#2 I'm not positive about the struts interchange, seems like the ball joint/lower control arm may be different, ask this on Audifans, someone will know.
#3 If you hear the starter click it is getting a signal, as others mentioned check condition of wire. And additionally clean the block surface and the starter surface mate, very clean!
#4 AzAutohaus is good

are you in vt?

my2000apb wrote:are you in vt?

Not right now, I'm in the middle of this stupid hot weather in maryland

peterpeterson wrote:Glad there is some useful information there. I have another update that I'll be posting later.

I'm getting to know CIS all too well. So if EFI isn't in the near future we can get your FI working as it should. Remember CIS is pretty reliable and useful for power levels around 250bhp.

I understand the potential of CIS, but the first step of CIS power is all new injectors (I know I have multiple leaky ones)/(anybody ever had theirs rebuilt through rock auto? would be a way I would consider pushing CIS) which, with what I already have, already pushes me over the cost of finishing my MS setup, which would have the potential of running better on a distributor based ignition than a chip essentially for free, so I think efi is where I'm headed

nick wrote:From your list:
#2 I'm not positive about the struts interchange, seems like the ball joint/lower control arm may be different, ask this on Audifans, someone will know.
#3 If you hear the starter click it is getting a signal, as others mentioned check condition of wire. And additionally clean the block surface and the starter surface mate, very clean!
#4 AzAutohaus is good

The starter won't click, the ignition relay will click with the key but the starter doesn't click or try at all. And thanks for the other tips!

Thanks for all the responses guys :thanks:

Starter problem could be key switch, maybe worn and not turning quite far enough (I had similar problem) Make sure ground strap is good, bat connections etc.

Yea, I learned the hard way on rebuilding a 20vt which is still sitting under my bench, cost a small fortune to rebuild and I probably could not even sell it for 500.

Not sure on the low oil psi, I'd be suprised if the pump was bad though. If this is a common problem on these i was not aware of that.

Good luck

So I really wanted to be stay up with this thread and the boards in general, but until internet is secured at my new place it will be spotty. I've been super busy moving between places, my old house took a full week of JUST cleaning after everything was moved out, 6 roommates and only one stayed to help clean, can you imagine that?

Anyways, few updates on the car, pics to follow when I get internet at my new apt. I drilled out the wastegate cap and after playing with that just capped the upper port and have been controlling boost with my foot; this has confirmed that I have a stock ECU with a stock fuel cut I think I have a boost leak somewhere because with the spring in the stock position and the nipple on the cap uncapped, the car only makes 5psi or so, but as yet I have been able to find anything and it looks like vacuum lines were recently replaced as they aren't too worn.

Plans for the weekend are (in no particular order):
-get a schrapnel knob or similar installed (9psi goal)
-hunt down and destroy boost leaks
-get parts for timing belt ordered
-change the oil (thinking the oil pressure problem might just be too light of an oil?)
-start getting things situated for the new intercooler (Thanks Nick/Rallyfreak202!!)
-do an injector leakdown test, nick also sent me some CIS injectors but in looking around it seems different CIS systems had
different pressures so I'm not sure if I'll be able to use them, but I can at least see how bad mine are and maybe get
those in as a temporary fix so I can move it around the neighborhood while I get mine rebuilt...

I can't believe how reliable it has been, I cleaned some grounds and the starting problem hasn't reared its head again and she pretty much runs like a champ. The injectors seem to be getting a bit worse as the car has a bit more trouble on hot starts which didn't used to be much of an issue (still isn't compared to a cold start ) and something in the front right needs replacing (wheel bearing or axle me thinks), but I couldn't be happier with the old girl. Also, saw my first other old audi around here (westminster, md), a 5000cs sedan, the guy driving it was really nice, apparently the car had 380k and original clutch... :tard: It made my old girl feel young again! :-D

what are you currently runnign for oil?

my2000apb wrote:what are you currently runnign for oil?

Honestly I'm not sure (I know I know :slap: ), it got a fresh change before the trip up to vermont from CT, but all I know is that it is synthetic so I'm going out to get 5 quarts of 10w40 and a filter and get that changed today.

Oh, and I've been talking to Ben Swann, should be going to meet up with him soon as he's only a little over an hour from me. I'm going with the chip that gives me the most headroom

I ran M1 15-50W all year. Yes, it even starts in sub 0F temps in Colorado

peterpeterson wrote:I ran M1 15-50W all year. Yes, it even starts in sub 0F temps in Colorado

Well that's good to know, it definately gets that cold in vermont lol 10w40 has improved the oil pressure situation a bit it seems; I think I'll go to 15-50w next change, but the warning light has only gone off once so far. What should hot idle pressure be at? I'm running a bit lower than the first dash on the gauge, hot cruising pressures have improved when hot to ~below 2bar to ~above 2bar so I feel that I'm moving in the right direction at least

10-40W is probably closer to the correct weight for optimal flow at cold temps and hot viscosity.

I believe hot-idle should be around the first tick, and usually depends on your idle speed as well. We all know how much our idle varies on the 20vt

I've seen anywhere between 2-4bar depending on the oil temp at 2000+ RPM.

What does your oil temp look like at cruising? Should be below 130C unless you are really beating on it.

shawn, if the lifers are quiet, drive the hell out of it. Thats my advice. Maybe even try a different set of gauges or you could have a dirty ground..

yeah cant be sure unless you put a mechanical oil press gauge or verified the connections to your electronic gauge is correct.

peterpeterson wrote:yeah cant be sure unless you put a mechanical oil press gauge or verified the connections to your electronic gauge is correct.

you can get a $16 sunpro mechanical gauge at autozone and see what it really is running. Again, if the lifters are quiet, I would probably just run the hell out of it. If you really wanted to get crazy, you could pull the pan and clean out the pickup tube. I highly doubt the pump itself has a problem. I have a 20v with 350k on it and the original pump with no issues.

The lifters aren't super quiet, if I let it run out in gear a little bit they quiet down pretty well but then again they are really loud sometimes. Oil pressures actually seem to have remained the same I got it hot in traffic and had the same problems, oil warning going off constantly and almost zero pressure so... I think I'm gonna do what you suggested Dana and clean out the feed tube, I'm pretty sure there is actually something wrong/clogged/something and although it probably isn't the end of the world/motor I'm trying to play this car a little more safe than my usual antics

Peterpeterson: where are the grounds for the gauges and sender? I went through the bay cleaning what open/corroded connections I could find but I may have missed some.