The Project Pad

So I'm suffering from some indecision re what transmission to use for my 07K-into-80q project. I love the 016 but as you know it's not easy to make that tranny work with the 07K.

An 01E from an UrS6 (I think) came up for sale locally at a good price so I grabbed it, and now have some questions as I'm pretty clueless about the 01E.

First: is converting it (CBD code 5-speed) to a 6-speed with used parts possible/sensible? I assume converting it with brand-new parts would cost more than just buying a euro TDI 6-speed. I want a tall-ratio 6th gear to get the RPMs down on the highway, so most of the 6-speeds found in US cars would not interest me.

Second: is there any sort of writeup on converting the 01E from 5- to 6-speed somewhere? I did quite a bit of Googling but didn't really find anything.

And third: I know very little about the history of this transmission, other than that it "had about 150K miles on it and worked okay". So I'm thinking it might be sensible to pull it apart and have a look-see at the insides. On a 1-10 scale, how difficult is that without factory tools? Would buying the JHM video be a good idea? It seems that and everything else on the JHM site is oriented toward the 6-speeds and I'm not sure how pertinent it would be to the 5-speed.

1. If you can find just used tdi 6th gearset for 100-300usd go for it... New gearset is around 600-700 usd i think. And its kinda plug and play. Used DQT-box (~best diesel one) is from 600-1100usd from sweden + shipping.
2. I dont think it needs a write up. Opening the whole box is completely different story...
3. 5 and 6 speeds are very much the same.

You will need to replace the 5-6 gearset as a unit. The selector mechanism in the transmission needs to be replaced/modified to enable shifting in to 6th gear. JHM does a DVD on how to service the 01e transmission.
https://jhmotorsports.com/shop/catalog/ ... _60_102_26

Doh! back to school for me. 5th & 6th are serviceable separately.
Contact Scott at Advance Automotion re modifying the shift rod in the transmission. I "think" he can do it.

A1QSHIP wrote:You will need to replace the 5-6 gearset as a unit. The selector mechanism in the transmission needs to be replaced/modified to enable shifting in to 6th gear. JHM does a DVD on how to service the 01e transmission.
https://jhmotorsports.com/shop/catalog/ ... _60_102_26

Yeah I ordered the DVD, for $20 I'd be nuts not to!

Modifying (vs. replacing) the selector... is there info on how to do that anywhere online? I did some searching but couldn't find anything. I know a new part costs $hundreds so if I could DIY it would be a big plus.

the video is paramount to success.

and no you DO NOT need to change 5th and 6th TOGETHER, they are separate gears. you DO NEED to change both 1 and 2 together as half of them are on the input shaft, and you DO NEED to change 3 and 4 together as their opposite half is on the layshaft, or hollow shaft.

you cannot (that i know of) modify the shifter dealio, but you could find someone who may have an extra that may be willing to sell/trade you. some people only use 4 speed 01Es in their race cars ;-)

aaaand, that shifter selector thing, it is not just the rod/lever/shaft thing, it is also the cap on the other end. they are different.

feel free to PM me with ANY questions about these trans's, i have rebuilt a "few" and in fact just got done with one yesterday and will be doing another this coming weekend.

i keep the video loaded up on the garage computer it seems.

and dont get confused by the JHM vid. the guy has it all pretty much spot on EXCEPT, he CONSTANTLY mistakes 5th and 6th gears. the order of the gears goes 1-R-2-3-4-6-5. he says 1-R-2-3-4-5-6 and that is not true..

i have some very valuable pages that can help you, from the Bentley manual. they show the exact order of all pieces, and even the difference from 5 speed to 6 speed.

and yes you can do this without any special tools. the only "tool" you need to make is the "puller" for the rearmost housing. the rest is standard gear pullers and a press. a bearing heater (i have an induction heater than makes life sweet) will also help you, but boiling water, oil, a toaster oven, they will all get the thing done as well.

Hey thanks! That really helps a lot.

For removing the rear housing, I have the same tool AngryTaco uses on 016s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_593_0LYhU) but I'm hoping not to have to use it.

Don't know if you saw this too...
http://12v.org/urs/Audi%2001E%206%20speed%20workshop%20manual.pdf

elaw wrote:Hey thanks! That really helps a lot.

For removing the rear housing, I have the same tool AngryTaco uses on 016s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_593_0LYhU) but I'm hoping not to have to use it.

Thank you so much for reposting that

That reminds me of an insult I came up with (as a joke) for someone I used to work with: "There's no problem that can't be solved with the proper combination of intelligence and violence... you better start pounding on it."

Grillage wrote:Don't know if you saw this too...
http://12v.org/urs/Audi%2001E%206%20speed%20workshop%20manual.pdf

Hey thanks!

I actually had found that, but realized once I downloaded it that it has almost nothing about the internals of the transmission.

But there is good news... I dug around my stash of documentation a bit and found this: http://www.thelawsplace.com/Audi80Aug11/Gearbox_CRB_CGR.pdf

Looks like I've got some reading to do!

elaw wrote:Hey thanks! That really helps a lot.

For removing the rear housing, I have the same tool AngryTaco uses on 016s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_593_0LYhU) but I'm hoping not to have to use it.

I had actually forgotten about that video!

I'll be watching this, as I'm not sure if I want to go very my 01E to 6 speed or not.

just throwing it out there, you can get an entire TDI 6-speed 01e shipped to your door for about $850....I can point you to the actual gearing if you are interested. It seems like the gearing is actually pretty good, even for a gasser. This way you get flexible mainshaft and you dont need to fuck with replacing gears yourself. It uses tripod joint axles, but i found that b4 90 axles are a bolt in when using 82mm bearing size front hubs.

dana wrote:just throwing it out there, you can get an entire TDI 6-speed 01e shipped to your door for about $850....I can point you to the actual gearing if you are interested.

Really? Where? I'd love to go that route, but I thought a TDI box would be somewhere around double that number. I noticed Hank has some for sale on his site but they're about 2 grand delivered!

dana wrote:It uses tripod joint axles, but i found that b4 90 axles are a bolt in when using 82mm bearing size front hubs.

You're talking about this type of flange, right?


That's quite the eye-opener if I understand correctly. My car (B3 80q) has been 5-lug converted with CQ front suspension bits and machined UrS hubs so I've already got the 82mm bearings. So you're saying I could get one of those transmissions, a pair of B4 90 front axles, and be good to go?

elaw wrote:

dana wrote:just throwing it out there, you can get an entire TDI 6-speed 01e shipped to your door for about $850....I can point you to the actual gearing if you are interested.

Really? Where? I'd love to go that route, but I thought a TDI box would be somewhere around double that number. I noticed Hank has some for sale on his site but they're about 2 grand delivered!

dana wrote:It uses tripod joint axles, but i found that b4 90 axles are a bolt in when using 82mm bearing size front hubs.

You're talking about this type of flange, right?

yes those flanges. Those are the same flanges on a lot of VAG cars.

That's quite the eye-opener if I understand correctly. My car (B3 80q) has been 5-lug converted with CQ front suspension bits and machined UrS hubs so I've already got the 82mm bearings. So you're saying I could get one of those transmissions, a pair of B4 90 front axles, and be good to go?

Yes, that is what I am saying. The trans appears to be identical in other ways to the 01e's that we see here in the US. I have b4 fwd 90 axles in mine, fit like a glove with the stock 90 20v front knuckles.

Wow! I ordered the JHM video and watched it over the weekend and it's great! Definitely very comprehensive and not only explains how to do the tricky parts, but why!

The only thing in there that raised an eyebrow for me was when he drove out the pin holding the 5-6 shift fork onto the shaft. I thought according to the factory manual that hammering that pin in or out is a major no-no?

Well that, and why on earth when changing the input shaft seal with the shaft out, he didn't just drive it out from the back with a screwdriver!

I do have one question, mostly out of curiosity: on a 5-speed 01E, what takes the place of the 6th gears? Are there just spacers or something?

yes. there is a spacer on the hollow shaft, and there is also a spacer under the shift fork lever so you cannot move into 6th gear position.

this is how a 5 speed looks, minus the 6th gear on the other shaft. i put that on there as there is a circlip in a groove on that shaft holding the race in, and i have popped it loose before so i will never pop that loose again. this wastes a set of 6th gear, but hey what can i do?

and in the video, he is very wrong EVERY TIME he speaks at all about 5th and 6th gears. the gear closer to the case in the back portion is 6th gear, not 5th. and the gear closest to the rear output is 5th, not 6th. he had to have read the manual to learn this and thus make this video, you can see the physical sizing differences, yet every time i watch it i curse him for this haha. the ordering of the gears are 1-R-2-3-4-6-5.



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And here is the difference between a 5 speed and a 6 speed gear selector. The top is 5 gears the bottom is 6 gears if you look on the bottom left of that shifting pattern you'll see what I'm talking about, the little indent pattern



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Picture turned on me...left is 5 speed right is 6 speed. Look on bottom right for the track differences

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Interesting!

It looks like the 5-speed part could possibly be turned into a 6-speed one, with a Dremel tool and probably more skill than I have.

or just ask someone who may have a few.....

And who would that be?

The more difficult question is where I'd get the tall 6th gearset. Any ideas on that one? I've got a vague memory of having stumbled on some while doing web searches, but every time I've tried recently I've come up with nada.

The other question is whether the same synchro hub and sleeve are used for both 5- and 6-speed? I found a list of conversion parts on IA's site (http://www.intendedacceleration.com/s4_s6_6-speed_conversion.html) and those items aren't on the list so hopefully I could reuse mine?

yes the syncro hub and slider should be the same. look closely on that picture you will see a little piece UNDER the head for the shift fork; that is to prevent shifting into a non existent 6th gear. that piece is not used in a six speed.

wouldnt Scott @ AdvancedAutomotion have 6th gear parts?

Yeah he's got them listed on the site but no price specified. His price for a 5th gearset is $725 and if the 6th is the same I could just spend another $125 and get a used 6-speed from Dana's source.

It seems like the only way modding a 5-speed into a 6-speed would be economically sensible is if it was done with used parts, but of course one has to have sources for the parts... that's what I'm trying to figure out. And of course knowing exactly what parts I need, but thanks to you guys I'm starting to have a pretty clear picture of that!

I just went from a CGR to an EDU and I really miss the close ratios of the CGR. Derrick(cuda) warned me but I didn't want to take the extra time and money to switch gearsets from the CGR to the EDU and the CGR had a broken first gear that I had been driving on for 2 years and I figured the gears weren't so great anymore. When I dumped the fluid it was Metallica, prob and justice for all...

So now I want to pull the trans and do it right! The EDU wasn't geared for a C4 with a 2.2. I'm slowly looking for some CGR guts and something to bribe someone to swap some gears, mebbe a palet o pretzel beerz