The Project Pad

Hello All, I started a thread on MG about this but I thought I'd ask the same questions here so that I might get a more open response. After seeing the response to Loxxrider's respectful post announcing his exodus from MG and the mods childish reaction, it's clear that open conversation about other peoples products isn't welcome there.

The subject...


So anyway, I am looking to upgrade from my 034 stage 1 chipped setup to a larger turbo, RS2 EM and more power. I already have a set of the 034 white rs2 injectors so that may steer this a little bit too.

I don't want to mess with the engine management and want to be able to do this in stages so a new exhaust and Intercooler may happen later - just not right away. Spring/Summer are coming and I will be able to drive my newly 5-speed Cabriolet while I get the work done (though 2 carseats in the back of that thing is pretty comical).

My original thoughts were to go straight RS2, Hanks Billet RS2 (though I don't have a core turbo for the modification) or the K26/GT2871 option

I don't know about the oil/coolant line ramifications of these choices either - sorry for my lack of knowledge there. I haven't had this part of my car apart yet.

thanks in advance for any feedback
Ben

From the EFI-X section...

Marc wrote:As some of you know we can now realtime tune maps for these ecus. This is exciting from a number of angles. custom turbos like the Iroz Motorsports billet turbos will now have matching dyno tuned software avaialble for purchase providing great bang for the buck horsepower (stock oil and water lines, stock inlet hoses, stock ecu, etc). all you need is a turbo, injectors, and software and you've got a 350whp setup for under $1500 complete (injectors, turbo, and software).

We're still working out all the details, but more info will be available soon.

I think this would be a nice set up for what your wanting to do. Definitely consider Hanks Billet turbo as well, if your worried about a core just hit up a local bone yard. There is bound to be some 5kqt sitting around somewhere that you could pull from.

Holy Smokes I was hoping this would happen.

The billet RS2 absolutely kills a 28rs and stacks very well with a 2871r.




Note that the first graph is on rs2 injectors which are just not up to snuff to fueling the turbo. The final tunes with Marc Swanson at EFIexpress are using larger 42lb injectors that will allow it to hold 26-28psi to redline.

Even with the more expensive rs2 variation, the rs2 billet setup would end up being significantly cheaper than the kkk/gt hybrids out there. THey say that the kkk/gt kit is drop in, but the hotside is larger, which makes stretching the flex bellow a requirement, the oil and water lines obviously need changed, and the inlet/outlet of the turbo on the cold side will need custom or altered components($$$$)

I personally think the k26 billets are pretty great values. At 850$, they represent a turbo that doesn't quite spool as fast as a 2871r or rs2 billet, but it gives a 3071r a serious run for it's money. Marc is working on a kit for under 1500$ that would give you injectors/tune/and turbo required to make 300whp. No need to swap lines, no need to swap intercooler plumbing or inlet plumbing. Just slap it in there and make great power.

hot dayum. I think you found your answer! If my car didn't come with a 30r already I'd probably go billet k26. So awesome.

That sounds great! Any idea when the kit would start being available?

Good job guys. Nice to see some good power mods for not much more than some 1+ kits.

Does JC have a stock exhaust for those dyno pulls?

Jc has OEM RS2 EM

Sent using Tapatalk for Android

What about the rest of the exhaust ?

Stock...

Sent using Tapatalk for Android

+1 for Hank's billet setup with Marc's software. Best bang for the buck and seems like it's exactly where you want to be power wise.

Seems like this may be the way I go once the kit is available.

The next question - what clutch kit should I run with this setup? My clutch MC broke recently and although I replaced both master and slave, I fear that the original clutch is on its last legs. I hadn't driven any other manual car in a while until I swapped out my 94 Cabriolet's trans for a stick. I initally thought I had done something wrong because it was so much lighter a pedal feel. Now I realize that the S6 is on borrowed time.

Grillage wrote:Seems like this may be the way I go once the kit is available.

The next question - what clutch kit should I run with this setup? My clutch MC broke recently and although I replaced both master and slave, I fear that the original clutch is on its last legs. I hadn't driven any other manual car in a while until I swapped out my 94 Cabriolet's trans for a stick. I initally thought I had done something wrong because it was so much lighter a pedal feel. Now I realize that the S6 is on borrowed time.

The URS may just have a more stout PP over the Cab. Just because the petal effort it increased doesn't mean that the clutch is failing. That being said, when increasing power you will almost certainly want a clutch upgrade. There are tons of options and many here will recommend Southbend Clutch (including myself). That being said, I have also had great luck with ClutchNet and the prices are much more reasonable.

So, when choosing a clutch level there are also a lot of options. Do you want it to drive like a factory vehicle or do you want an on/off switch? How much power is your ultimate goal? For Hank/Marc's kit I'd say a full face disk would be perfect with an upgraded pressure plate. For example a Southbend stage 3 daily or a Clutchnet Stage 3.

There are awesome promo's for clutchnet right now too. I just bought one

I think a stage 3 makes sense. Ideally I'd like the pedal feel to be stockish. Ill look at clutchnet but southbend seems to come pretty highly recommended.

Grillage wrote:I think a stage 3 makes sense. Ideally I'd like the pedal feel to be stockish. Ill look at clutchnet but southbend seems to come pretty highly recommended.

The nice thing about clutchnet is that you can pick and choose to suite your needs/wants. You can opt for a softer PP and more aggressive disk if desired.

http://clutchnet.com/index.php?option=c ... Itemid=140

For example, a yellow PP and a full face disk:

http://clutchnet.com/index.php?page=sho ... Itemid=140
http://clutchnet.com/index.php?page=sho ... Itemid=140

With a dual mass flywheel you can get away with a soild (un-sprung) hub, which saves some money.

Use promo code 1924

amd is the best wrote:
Use promo code 1924

Noted!

mushasho wrote:

amd is the best wrote:
Use promo code 1924

Noted!

20% off and free shipping is substantial.

This is very helpful - thanks!

So sticking with the DMFW I will be looking for an unsprung disk - the offer fiber carbon and Kevlar in the solid plate discs. Any opinions on which is better?

Then the pressure plates, the stronger the plate the tougher the pedal feel right?

Grillage wrote:This is very helpful - thanks!

So sticking with the DMFW I will be looking for an unsprung disk - the offer fiber carbon and Kevlar in the solid plate discs. Any opinions on which is better?

Then the pressure plates, the stronger the plate the tougher the pedal feel right?

With dual mass, the flywheel can take up the shock and an unsprung disk is perfect. Some DMF setups (like my Golf) are unsprung from the factory.

I have only used Clutchnet's six puck disks so I cannot comment on the full face ones. I'd skip the organic and pick between the Fiber carbon and Kevlar. Maybe shoot them an email.

As for the PP, you are correct. Green will be soft, yellow medium and red heaviest petal feel but the increased petal feel is usually because of an increased clamping force (to handle more torquez). I'd say yellow would be a happy medium (though I've only ran red myself).

Grillage wrote:So sticking with the DMFW I will be looking for an unsprung disk - the[y] offer fiber carbon and Kevlar in the solid plate discs. Any opinions on which is better?

Then the pressure plates, the stronger the plate the tougher the pedal feel right?

Due in large part to Nick's suggestion (and a local VW-mech friend of mine who swears by them) I went with ClutchNet over the much vaunted SouthBend (whom I'd been coveting for... years) to mate to my crate CGR.

Not going to lie, slightly nervous about "cheaping-out" on the clutch but worst case it'll be a deadly upgrade for my stock DD coupe q.

When I talked with Oleg on the phone, about their mfr'ing process vs other options like VAST b5 clutches (my upgraded frame of reference), I was sufficiently impressed to throw down then & there on the red PP and full face fibre-carbon set up. He mentioned that it'll feel very grabby but can still be slipped for parking/hill-start situations. Awesome. Warranty issues sounded like non-issues.

Something about Kevlar degrading/disintegrating at ~ 500*C (as per DuPont spec) makes me nervous, so I opted for the carbon.

HTH!

PRY4SNO wrote:
Due in large part to Nick's suggestion (and a local VW-mech friend of mine who swears by them) I went with ClutchNet over the much vaunted SouthBend (whom I'd been coveting for... years) to mate to my crate CGR.

Not going to lie, slightly nervous about "cheaping-out" on the clutch but worst case it'll be a deadly upgrade for my stock DD coupe q.

When I talked with Oleg on the phone, about their mfr'ing process vs other options like VAST b5 clutches (my upgraded frame of reference), I was sufficiently impressed to throw down then & there on the red PP and full face fibre-carbon set up. He mentioned that it'll feel very grabby but can still be slipped for parking/hill-start situations. Awesome. Warranty issues sounded like non-issues.

Something about Kevlar degrading/disintegrating at ~ 500*C (as per DuPont spec) makes me nervous, so I opted for the carbon.

HTH!

I was exactly the same! As a previous owner/supporter/happy Southbend customer, when I put my 200 together with the larger turbo ~two years ago, Southbend's prices were a solid 33% higher than Clutchnet. I hate trying new things as most of the time it comes back to bite me. Like you I felt almost as though I was "cheaping out".

My decision to go Clutchnet couldn't have been a better one. Not only did I save lots of money, I am VERY pleased with the results. So pleased that I have ordered exactly the same clutch for my 01E swap which is currently in progress (Red PP and 6 puck sprung hub).

I'll know shortly how the old clutch looks when I pull the transmission. I'll be sure to share pictures of it after ~45k miles of countless hard launches Still holding strong mind you.

Not sure by your post, but how do you like the clutch? Or, is it not installed yet?

One other thing to add (related or not), I had a 6 puck Kevlar Southbend in a previous car that had lasted ~3 years/(~60k) and when removed was completely perfect. Held all of the 350wtq I was throwing at it in my 1990 Ford Probe GT Turbo. Actually sold it to someone else to enjoy. So, in other words, I've had good luck with Kevlar as a clutch friction material.

amd is the best wrote:

PRY4SNO wrote:Something about Kevlar degrading/disintegrating at ~ 500*C (as per DuPont spec) makes me nervous, so I opted for the carbon.

HTH!

Not sure by your post, but how do you like the clutch? Or, is it not installed yet?

Haven't received it in the mail yet... but don't forsee installing it any time SOON either.

Going to ensure new DD project car is solid, build fledgling business, and get suspension/subframe-and-up refurb finished before I tackle the vac-assist and CGR swap I have in mind for the black coupe. Lol, full plate!

Maybe summer before I have results. Pending forged internals purchase. OMG what have I done...

PRY4SNO wrote:

amd is the best wrote:

PRY4SNO wrote:Something about Kevlar degrading/disintegrating at ~ 500*C (as per DuPont spec) makes me nervous, so I opted for the carbon.

HTH!

Not sure by your post, but how do you like the clutch? Or, is it not installed yet?

Haven't received it in the mail yet... but don't forsee installing it any time SOON either.

Going to ensure new DD project car is solid, build fledgling business, and get suspension/subframe-and-up refurb finished before I tackle the vac-assist and CGR swap I have in mind for the black coupe. Lol, full plate!

Maybe summer before I have results. Pending forged internals purchase. OMG what have I done...

Good plan. I'm sure there will be no dissapointment when the time comes

I basically have a CGR going in my 200

Increased pedal effort does not necessarily mean your clutch will soon fail, but it DOES mean that it is worn to some degree. If you replaced OE with OE you would find a significant decrease in pedal effort.

One little-known fact is that Southbend has an exchange program - if you send them a used OE clutch, you can get a new clutch back for REALLY cheap. Like under $200 for their stage 4/5 clutches. This applies to UrS-fitment clutches, not sure about other applications.

While I fully agree that a significant power increase generally warrants a clutch upgrade, I have seen OE UrS clutches holding 325+whp without a problem. I would personally have no problem running an OE clutch with the billet k26 upgrade from Hank/Marc, if you choose to go that route. New OE Luk full clutch kits are available on eBay for ~$185 shipped.

Stock clutch would be fine until you attempt to launch the car. Even at stock power a stock clutch will slip if you try to launch with any aggressiveness.

If you don't plan to ever launch the car then as Ed mentioned, a stock clutch will save a substantial amount of money.

I spoke with the guy from clutch net a little while ago. He suggested a red pressure plate and organic material disc. He said a street car wouldn't need the Kevlar or the fiber Carbon.

I asked how much HP that combo could handle and he just said "you'll be fine". Wouldn't give me a number.

This setup is $420 after the "1924"promo code

Ill look into the southbend exchange deal too. Thanks again everybody.