The Project Pad

Hi everyone,

I hope I won't waste your time asking stupid questions but here I go

1 - Is it possible to use VEMS Standalone on a NG/NF (20v 2.3 N/A engine running KE 3.2 Jetronic ECU) ?

Maybe I'm missing a major point about differences between Motronic & KEJetronic ...
It's not about gaining a few HP on this asthmatic engine (OKAY I WOULD TRY ANYWAY ) : my aim is to learn and try tweaking VEMS on my NF2 while trying to find a decent 3B.

2 - What should be modded on the car to use it ?
Ideally I'd like to plug it and run it as it goes but I guess I'll have to do some other modifications ? (eg : I heard that my OEM lambda isn't accurate enough for the AFR)

3 - Is there a difference between "standard VEMS" and "Motronic VEMS" ?
If yes, what it the difference ? What should I be looking for ?

Many thanks in advance !

Foscora wrote:Hi everyone,

I hope I won't waste your time asking stupid questions but here I go

1 - Is it possible to use VEMS Standalone on a NG/NF (20v 2.3 N/A engine running KE 3.2 Jetronic ECU) ?

sure.

Maybe I'm missing a major point about differences between Motronic & KEJetronic ...
It's not about gaining a few HP on this asthmatic engine (OKAY I WOULD TRY ANYWAY ) : my aim is to learn and try tweaking VEMS on my NF2 while trying to find a decent 3B.

2 - What should be modded on the car to use it ?
Ideally I'd like to plug it and run it as it goes but I guess I'll have to do some other modifications ? (eg : I heard that my OEM lambda isn't accurate enough for the AFR)

yeah, you'll want to use a wideband sensor. you'll also need a new harness. we can supply you with either a PnP harness or varying degrees of harnesses that will need modification depending on your budget and wiring prowess.

3 - Is there a difference between "standard VEMS" and "Motronic VEMS" ?
If yes, what it the difference ? What should I be looking for ?

motronic vems is also called "PnP VEMS" which is designed to plug into a factory UrS4/UrS6 wiring harness. price is $1400 for the PnP ECU, $775 for an econoseal auditrigger ecu that requires a harness.

Many thanks in advance !

no problem. let me know if you have any other questions.

Thanks for "unfog" Marc !

Just a last question : Is there any reasons my will to experiment first on my NF2 wouldn't worth it ? Any things I could've forgot to think about ?

For the rest, I took a concrete look at your site and I found my answers so I guess that's all.

Thanks again Marc

Foscora wrote:Thanks for "unfog" Marc !

Just a last question : Is there any reasons my will to experiment first on my NF2 wouldn't worth it ? Any things I could've forgot to think about ?

well, there is a bit of expense to standalone'ing an NF since it comes stock as a CIS engine, meaning you're going to need stuff like a fuel rail, pressure regulator, injectors, etc. starting with a car thats already EFI would save you that expense. Also as I'm sure you probably already know you wont be able to make a whole lot of extra power just from changing over to CIS on an NA NF engine. perhaps 5% at most. if your goal is to learn how to tune its not a bad place to start. pretty hard to 'hurt' one of those motors.

Marc wrote:well, there is a bit of expense to standalone'ing an NF since it comes stock as a CIS engine, meaning you're going to need stuff like a fuel rail, pressure regulator, injectors, etc. starting with a car thats already EFI would save you that expense.

Ok that was exactly the concerns behind my question.

Marc wrote:Also as I'm sure you probably already know you wont be able to make a whole lot of extra power just from changing over to CIS on an NA NF engine. perhaps 5% at most.

Indeed I already knew this

Marc wrote:if your goal is to learn how to tune its not a bad place to start. pretty hard to 'hurt' one of those motors.

That's exactly the aim

I'll think about it then ! Again, many thanks Marc

Marc wrote:

Foscora wrote:Thanks for "unfog" Marc !

Just a last question : Is there any reasons my will to experiment first on my NF2 wouldn't worth it ? Any things I could've forgot to think about ?

well, there is a bit of expense to standalone'ing an NF since it comes stock as a CIS engine, meaning you're going to need stuff like a fuel rail, pressure regulator, injectors, etc. starting with a car thats already EFI would save you that expense. Also as I'm sure you probably already know you wont be able to make a whole lot of extra power just from changing over to CIS on an NA NF engine. perhaps 5% at most. if your goal is to learn how to tune its not a bad place to start. pretty hard to 'hurt' one of those motors.

I put Megasquirt on my NG 80Q way back when, and it really woke the car up. I think having that metering plate restricting airflow into the engine really saps power. With a 272 cam, the car was super responsive and torquey, and would walk all over a factory 20v car.

The downside is you have to start from scratch with everything on the car. The factory wiring harness is useless. The stock ignition system triggers off the 5-window distributor, which I used with Megasquirt, but it has a lot of jitter in it due to the timing belt and distributor gear having play in them. Not super accurate, but probably OK for the power being made. I do not believe the stock flywheel has a TDC pin in it, but I never checked. On top of that, you have to machine the intake manifold for fuel injector seats (the bores where the CIS injectors go in can just be tapped if you can find an M22 tap), mount a fuel rail and injectors, and wire the whole thing. I used a 7A throttle body for a TPS, and put a 3" silicone elbow over that attached to a pipe with a cone filter on the end for my intake.

Edit: It sounded awesome with that intake and cam
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srV2QWnaSoc[/youtube]

Sam

Thats a nice!