Derracudas zermatt 20vt,6spd, 351awhp - July 4th drive vid

SeStone · Post by **SeStone** » Thu Dec 21, 2006 9:25 pm

Woohoo, someone getting something cool done quick on Motorgeek! Amazing~!!!

Sam

derracuda · Post by **derracuda** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 12:07 am

Done and Done 8)

audibeans · Post by **audibeans** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 12:26 am

U got all the toys! :-)

maarten · Post by **maarten** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 1:08 am

nice work

Clouse · Post by **Clouse** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 2:50 am

I think I'll add my "I hate you" quote after that last picture you posted... :x

But seriously, awesome car. I love the route you're taking with it and will be eagerly following this thread with a bowl of popcorn. 8)

Jon Cook · Post by **Jon Cook** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 3:27 am

Great work Derek

I started converting my B2 80Q (4000) to 5x112 using S2 parts but had problems :( i'm now going to source some 200tq hubs and go about converting to 5x112 the way you did.

heres a pic of her

Henka · Post by **Henka** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 4:13 am

What kind of problems did you run into Jon?

Mr D - the splines on the 5K and the 4K is the same then is it? I mean I knew that the rears were the same but I had not realized that the front shafts were coarse too.

EES · Post by **EES** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 5:21 am

Little late to the party, but very nice car! Save the wood shift knob and analog clock it has my interior.

Thank you for sorting all this 5 lug stuff out so I don't have to!!

Wizard-of-OD · Post by **Wizard-of-OD** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 9:10 am

Wizard-of-OD wrote:Does this me there is an econo 5 lug conversion out there?

derracuda · Post by **derracuda** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 10:00 am

Henka wrote:What kind of problems did you run into Jon?

Mr D - the splines on the 5K and the 4K is the same then is it? I mean I knew that the rears were the same but I had not realized that the front shafts were coarse too.

henka, stop reading so fast and you'll see what i did for axles splines. i had to use two rear axles in the front

they have to be swapped though, right rear to left front, and left rear to right front. i ended up using the original rear axles from my alpine car which have the small inner CV's since the 4kq has them up front (the 84-early 85 cars have the large turbo inner CV's in the rear)

and Wiz, this 5lug swap has cost me...

$125 for four new wheel bearings
$10 for shims
$40 for the front strut assemblies

i had the extra rear axles, the A4 front brakes, and 5ktq hubs laying here and put them all into play.

derracuda · Post by **derracuda** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 10:02 am

[quote="Jon Cook"]Great work Derek

I started converting my B2 80Q (4000) to 5x112 using S2 parts but had problems :( i'm now going to source some 200tq hubs and go about converting to 5x112 the way you did.

heres a pic of her

quote]

did you use the S2 lower control arms? it looks like it. if so, switch to the normal stamped lower control arms and get ball joints for an 89 20v 80/90 which has the 19mm shaft. that should fix that up for ya

Audilard · Post by **Audilard** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 10:05 am

SeStone wrote:Woohoo, someone getting something cool done quick on Motorgeek! Amazing~!!!

Sam

I resent that. :wink:

Jon Cook · Post by **Jon Cook** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 10:18 am

Thanks Derek ... i used all s2, Inner flanges,DS,Wishbone(control arm) Bearing housings,struts.

The 01E inner flange in the 016 box seems to be the problem think, everything turns lovely until
i tightened the centre bolt middle of the flange then it binds up :( when you look @ the two inner flanges 016 & 01e one of them is longer (i can't remember which one @ the moment)

I'm thinking over switching it back to normal then use 200tq hubs.
Is it just the hubs i need ?

Jon

derracuda · Post by **derracuda** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 10:29 am

well, i think that the S2 housings use those 82mm bearings, so the 200tq hubs wouldn't work in them. i guess you could always sell the stuff you have and just get the stuff i used.

Wizard-of-OD · Post by **Wizard-of-OD** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 3:12 pm

so your saying that we no longer need S2 hubs to perform a 5 x112 conversion?Everything can be had from a combination of an Audi A4 and Audi 5000S?

derracuda · Post by **derracuda** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 3:51 pm

arg!!! read my posts!! no 5000s

i will cover this once again, this pertains to 4kq's only with the old style through spline CV axles... [not the through bolt style[/b]

5lug swap parts list!

front end first

B3 front struts that use 75mm bearing
5kT hubs (can use front and rear hubs from a quattro 5ktq)
4kq rear wheel bearings (used in all four corners in my situation)

press the 4kq rear wheel bearings into the B3 struts. on my particular struts, there was no circlip holding the bearing in place, so that allowed me to put shims between the bearing and the seat in the spindle/strut housing, and between the bearing and hub (refer to pics on page 3) to move the hub out so that the A4 brake rotor clears the spindle properly

rear axles are needed for the front, you take right rear and put it in the left front, and the left rear and put it in the right front. there is a difference in the inner axle CV's in the year 1985. 84'-early 85' use the large inner CV the same as the turbo cars, late 85' and up use the standard small inner CV's. the 85' transmission uses the small inner CV's and therefore need the late 85' and up rear axles (unless you want the large CV's all the way around and get the early axles and large drive cups from a turbo transmission )

i put a single washer/spacer between the caliper carrier and spindle to get the carrier more centered on the rotor.

with the use of the B3 struts, you'll have to adjust the tie rods out or you will have nasty toe in.

Rear instructions

5ktq hubs(there again you can also use 5kt front hubs, the fwd'ers use different hubs in back.... cause they're lame

you press the 4x108 hub out press the 5kt/q hub in, redrill the rotor, reassemble and you're good to go. that parts so easy it's not even funny.

any more questions?

cuatrokoop · Post by **cuatrokoop** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 5:04 pm

D - the 5000S also comes with quattro, I have one. Same hubs and such as the CS (5ktq).

JShadzi · Post by **JShadzi** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 5:06 pm

Dizzle, hey, you should post up what size slinkeys, I mean rings, I mean spacers you used in your bearing-spacing-operation :-)

Longitudinal · Post by **Longitudinal** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 5:23 pm

derracuda wrote:there is a difference in the inner axle CV's in the year 1985. 84'-early 85' use the large inner CV the same as the turbo cars, late 85' and up use the standard small inner CV's. the 85' transmission uses the small inner CV's and therefore need the late 85' and up rear axles (unless you want the large CV's all the way around and get the early axles and large drive cups from a turbo transmission )

Even though the above is in bold print, I have a little trouble understanding. What you are saying about 84-early 85 using large flanges applies only to the rear shafts or both front and rear? Don't all 4KQ transmissions (not rear differentials) use the standard "small" 100mm flange with 8*1.25 bolts?

derracuda · Post by **derracuda** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 7:08 pm

cuatrokoop wrote:D - the 5000S also comes with quattro, I have one. Same hubs and such as the CS (5ktq).

yes, but in 4lug

not 5... AFAIK

derracuda · Post by **derracuda** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 7:12 pm

Jonathan wrote:
derracuda wrote:there is a difference in the inner axle CV's in the year 1985. 84'-early 85' use the large inner CV the same as the turbo cars, late 85' and up use the standard small inner CV's. the 85' transmission uses the small inner CV's and therefore need the late 85' and up rear axles (unless you want the large CV's all the way around and get the early axles and large drive cups from a turbo transmission )

Even though the above is in bold print, I have a little trouble understanding. What you are saying about 84-early 85 using large flanges applies only to the rear shafts or both front and rear? Don't all 4KQ transmissions (not rear differentials) use the standard "small" 100mm flange with 8*1.25 bolts?

the last half of my paragraph states exactly what i'm trying to get across

cuatrokoop · Post by **cuatrokoop** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 7:47 pm

derracuda wrote:
cuatrokoop wrote:D - the 5000S also comes with quattro, I have one. Same hubs and such as the CS (5ktq).

yes, but in 4lug not 5... AFAIK

Uh no. I've owned, driven and maintained a 5000S quattro for ten+ years. Trust me, it uses 5ktq hubs and wheel bearings. Otherwise I wouldn't have said "Same hubs and such as the CS (5ktq)".

Here's a tidbit from ETKA:

447 407 615A - Wheel hub - 5-Loch
Used in: 1989-1991 200, 1987-1988 5000q, 1980-1988 5kt, 1986-1988 5ktq, 1982-1987 quattro.

http://cuatrokoop.audi-quattro.org/others.htm

Toxcheap · Post by **Toxcheap** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 8:17 pm

kinda a rare car, non turbo quattro 5000 wish I could find more I love the driveline ratios!!
And it's 5 lug same hubs as the turbo's

Longitudinal · Post by **Longitudinal** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 9:03 pm

Derek,

Excellent non-answer.

Let me ask another way:

If I had a 1984 4KQ transmission, would the conversion involve early rear axles instead of late rear axles?

derracuda · Post by **derracuda** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 11:31 pm

Jonathan wrote:Derek,

Excellent non-answer.

Let me ask another way:

If I had a 1984 4KQ transmission, would the conversion involve early rear axles instead of late rear axles?

Jonathan,

not to be nit picky here, but i don't have an 84 tranny. i'd guess they have the small drive flanges. i listed what i knew from what i have(85' and up) and my references of the 84' rear axles are based upon what i've been told from martin pajak and the one 11/84' 4kq i had with the large rear axles (and coincedentally small fronts, so that answers the question of the late build 84's....marked as an 85' as having the small flanges at the tranny). if you have an earlier 84' tranny there, you could just go measure the front axles yourself and let me know so we can put this to bed