Derracudas zermatt 20vt,6spd, 351awhp - July 4th drive vid

tbar · Post by **tbar** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 9:08 pm

I can't wait to see you run 12's on a k24, with your new exhaust and intercooler setup. :-) Very nice!!!

Quattro Krant · Post by **Quattro Krant** » Wed Jun 24, 2009 12:12 am

Thanks for putting them up on Youtube so us non facebookers could hear it. Sounds awesome, reminds me of a VR6 but with a flatter tone if that makes any sense.

ralleyquattro · Post by **ralleyquattro** » Wed Jun 24, 2009 4:45 am

Is this a high press pump on there? If so you need to change the rack as well, otherwise she'll leak.
If you found a way to reduce the pressure from the pump I would love to hear it (as many would as well).
Also, if you are donw with the 944T unit I would be interested in it..

Looking good!

PxTx · Post by **PxTx** » Wed Jun 24, 2009 5:10 am

ralleyquattro wrote:Is this a high press pump on there? If so you need to change the rack as well, otherwise she'll leak.
If you found a way to reduce the pressure from the pump I would love to hear it (as many would as well).
Also, if you are donw with the 944T unit I would be interested in it..
Looking good!

I've been running a high pressure (125 bar) A6 pump on my AAN/4000 setup. I still have the low pressure rack in it with no leaks for over a year now.

Despite the high pressure, the steering feel is the same as stock. I did consult a hydraulic shop, which said they could offer me a pressure reducing valve, which has a bleed-off line. They felt pretty confident that it would not be needed and the rack should handle it.

Now I have to admit, at the time I wa kinda hoping the the rack started to leak so I could step up to an 034 quick ratio rack, which I'm told works with all audi pumps. Witht he way money is righ now, I'm happy it is holding.

ralleyquattro · Post by **ralleyquattro** » Wed Jun 24, 2009 5:32 am

Couple of people attempted it and it blew the seals on the low pressure rack.
They had to switch to the 90q one (typ 89).

I wonder how you got it to run, whese pumps have to outlests, correct?
Which one did you connect to and did you simply block the other one.. enquiring minds would like to know..

Thanks

PxTx · Post by **PxTx** » Wed Jun 24, 2009 6:01 am

I needed to eliminate the AAN power steering pump due to the second port for baking assist. When my stock 4kq pump seemed too difficult to adapt to the AAN serp belt system I figured to look for a pump off an 2.8 motor since it looked like the front half of an AAN pump what what I saw online.

I picked up a pump from a junk yard which claimed it was removed form a 1996 or 1997 A6 with a 2.8. It did bolt right up in place of the AAN pump, but the pulley alignment was off just a little bit. I actually took the 4kq v-belt pulley and placed it behind the AAN power steering pulley to act as a spacer. Kinga funny that it fit without any clearance issues. I did have a custom high pressure hose madem, but that was only like a $20 cost adder. Seems to work well enough for now. I have not run any track session on it, but the street duty it has seen has been fine.

I am curious if there really is a different seal used for the 80/90 higher pressure racks than lower pressure 4kq racks. The hydraulic shop who made the hsoe and offered me some insite seemed to think they would be the same seals.

ralleyquattro · Post by **ralleyquattro** » Wed Jun 24, 2009 6:43 am

Are you running the tranny fluid (red) or the new mineral stuff in that setup.

Thanks for the tips, it will help a lot in future.

Cheers

PxTx · Post by **PxTx** » Wed Jun 24, 2009 8:06 am

My 4k is an 87. It had a mineral sticker on the resivoir. I've been told that Audi had a TSB on updating some of the cars. I've never seen it and don't know what it was supposed to address.

I've seen this sticker on other cars as well. So I was pretty confident that the rack would be fine with either. I beleive the pump in the A6 specified mineral oil, so I am running mineral. That may be my saving grace on making this all work.

derracuda · Post by **derracuda** » Wed Jun 24, 2009 8:30 am

i still have the old style rack and pump that use ATF. the new pump is a high pressure pump, but the steering rack will be replaced. i have a good 90q rack, and i'm also thinking about a quick ratio unit.

Jretal · Post by **Jretal** » Wed Jun 24, 2009 10:58 am

Looking good, Derek!

What intercoolers are those btw? I'm planning on doing something similar for my 4000 using B5 S4 ICs. Need to figure out end tanks, though.

derracuda · Post by **derracuda** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 9:58 pm

the IC cores are from a saab 900. late 80's.

evolution of a P/S, alt. and tensioner bracket.

Wizard-of-OD · Post by **Wizard-of-OD** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 11:12 pm

Hey thats just like mine!

Only difference is I used the basket for the power steering from a 12V VR6,saves the welding time...

Twintowers · Post by **Twintowers** » Fri Jun 26, 2009 12:15 am

My boss switched to red ATF in his dump trailer, he said the first time he blew the seals in the ram using the specific mineral fluid, though he did say that the dump bed was loaded a little heavy for the size ram he was using. The place he bought new seals from to fix the ram said use ATF fluid to prevent the seals from blowing out the next time. So this leads me to the question, Audi started using higher pressure power steering pumps, and or relief valves in what year? When I bought my wife's Audi 1988 90, the rack was shot leaking all over the place, I think most people have been in my shoes with an older Audi on this very sore subject! I replaced the rack switched to a older coupe rack, but left the factory hydro pump in place and instead of using the mineral oil synthetic C-10 or whatever, I used ATF. I noticed better road feel, and less of the power steering feel though still a breeze to park, better than that leaky old one with mineral oil everywhere smoke from the mineral oil hitting the catalytic converter, praying the things not going to catch on fire.... The difference in red ATF, and mineral oil is clear, use ATF expect your power steering not to leak anytime soon, use mineral oil because someone said it's better to use because it conditions the seals etc...., but expect to change the rack out in the very near future when the seals blow again. Did Audi do that on purpose or was there a miss-communication between the engineering department at ZF and the guy that supposedly was in charge of hydraulics i.e. low rider department Audi A.G. oh say back in about 1987 1988? I though American cars were only supposed to leak power steering fluid? When I replaced the leaky seal on our Toyota power steering pump $8.00 for the seal, though the manual said use mineral oil, I once again switched to ATF. The guy at the local bike shop said his special red fluid he uses for lubing chains, and other squeaky things on a bike is Red ATF...

derracuda · Post by **derracuda** » Sat Jun 27, 2009 7:29 am

next installment of front crossmember and IC placement.

my dad was so kind to take some pics of me TIG welding. later on a friend stopped by and took over because he's better and faster since he does it for a living. so later on, any pretty welds you see are his

there's just enough room to slide the tank down between the crossmember and the pulleys. my last IC setup i built for the alpine car was a little hard to do that because it had to be even tighter than this one.

unfortunately, the crossbar is a little too toight to put the indicators with bulb housings in place, so i'll be looking for an LED panel to supplement and make it thinner.

it's a tight fit, but it fits

i've got a few end tank ideas swirling around in my crazy little head. progress has halted now that i am on my way back home for the next couple weeks. but when i get back to the shop i'll be back on the fabrication train

my2000apb · Post by **my2000apb** » Sat Jun 27, 2009 8:20 am

what kind of room do you have allowed for engine movement, which i think may be more a factor as you are using all oem softer rubber mounts vs harder 034 mount or whatnot, what size gap is between teh core and pulleys?

derracuda · Post by **derracuda** » Sat Jun 27, 2009 8:25 am

there is more room between this IC core and the front pulley than on my alpine car, and i never had a problem. i had one custom stiff motormount on that car though, and no snub mount. this car will have a custom snubmount... i'm not finished yet

my2000apb · Post by **my2000apb** » Sat Jun 27, 2009 8:48 am

:-D

ill have pics up soon of my setup, not nearly as crazy but heres a sneak peak

Attachment ( 17433 ) : fmic.jpg

dubsmith · Post by **dubsmith** » Sat Jun 27, 2009 9:57 am

apb: What kind of IC is that? custom endtanks?

my2000apb · Post by **my2000apb** » Sat Jun 27, 2009 9:59 am

its an isuzu NPR delivery truck intercooler and i had Cyrus weld on a 90 deg bend on the drivers side and cut / rewelded the pass side to about -20 degrees to horizontal vs the +20 deg it was above horizon.

also had it acid dipped and primed / painted

there will be a lot more about it in my project thread when i get it updated soemtime this weekend, as to not clog up D's thread too much

hows it coming?

85oceanic · Post by **85oceanic** » Sun Jun 28, 2009 12:56 pm

I am a little late, but the exhaust sounds amazing.... i want it.... well I want the whole car haha. Awesome work Derek! :-D

PxTx · Post by **PxTx** » Sun Jun 28, 2009 4:25 pm

I totally dig the appraoch to both the exhaust and the IC setup. Certainly an outside the box way of thinking, but seems worth it so far! Good Luck.

derracuda · Post by **derracuda** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 9:17 am

i was making some progress on the intercooler this weekend, but failed to see a small piece of metal that fell into the t-belt zone and when i cranked it to move it this morning, bang bang bang bang bang...... sucks that i only have maybe 2k miles on the motor and everything in the top end was new. hopefully it's only one row of valves and not all of them. autopsy in the near future. i think i'll finish the IC fab before i start a new mess.

time for phase two in the engine department.

yodasfro · Post by **yodasfro** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 9:18 am

That blows. :(

death 4kqt · Post by **death 4kqt** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 9:25 am

oh man, thats one of my nightmares come true. sorry to hear that. But, we all know you will make it stronger and faster in a very clean fasion as usual.

speeding-g60 · Post by **speeding-g60** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 9:29 am

what what????

ouch....

Derracudas zermatt 20vt,6spd, 351awhp - July 4th drive vid

High or low pressure? RED ATF TO THE RESCUE?