Nick's 1991 200q Project - QUAT44RO

[Clem86]

You have a sport quattro -exhaust-manifold ?
Your spare is a 3B or an AAN ?

Can't wait to see more uploads .. t44-sleeper for life

[Mcstiff]

You have a sport quattro -exhaust-manifold ?
Your spare is a 3B or an AAN ?

Can't wait to see more uploads .. t44-sleeper for life

It's like a German Grand National

[loxxrider]

Downpipe definitely looks to be like it might be tight to fit. Just an idea... if it does prove to be an issue, you could have a wedge-shaped T3 spacer flange made to angle the turbo more.

[WOMBAT]

It's like a German Grand National

Can't wait for the onslaught of youtube videos for 2hundo Rev.2

[amd is the best]

Ok, so for those have you who have done a complete build from scratch...

I realize the engine will need to go through a slight break-in process to seat the rings. Lots of controversy here though I plan to just basically break it in how I'll drive it just with low-ish boost levels.

That being said, with an all new fuel system that will take some tweaking to get everything on point and I know being too rich will "wash" the cylinder walls. On to my question, should I keep my current fuel system for engine break in then install pumps/injectors or is it pretty common to do it all at once?

[EDIGREG]

that would be a good idea, IMO.

[dana]

I'd vote for a break in on your existing stuff. You eliminate variables for troubleshooting new stuff that way and break in the new motor on stuff you know is working and tuned well.

[mushasho]

That's how I did it... So far solid numbers across the cylinders (comp/leak down)... Though I can't say I was initially running "rich" from start up to 100miles(new turbo + cam)... I did ease in it though as opposed to driving it like I would...

[chaloux]

I would do it that way. I used all the same hardware but unfortunately had major ecu issues. I wouldn't expect the same again though so as long as it's all the same use the same fuel and then install after break in. But it's still not good after break in.

[loxxrider]

Agreed that it would be good to do it on your fuel setup you have now. You're a good enough tuner that you'd have it dialed in quickly though.

[Justin517]

First start and break it in set up in a way you know works flawlessly.

My buddy wiped out a cam on a chevy 350 because he decided to get a used carb and pop it on at the same time as the cam swap... couldn't keep it running well at the higher RPM required to break in a new cam and ended up rounding a few lobes shortly after.

I know this isn't the same case for you, but same story more or less.

I often see builds broken in with stock turbos and low boost, IIRC vacuum is important to seat rings properly.

[amd is the best]

Thanks for the tips guys. I'll hold on to my current fuel system to break the new engine in.

Now, I am on the fence with what head hardware I am going to go with... PLZ HLP.

Up until last night I had been SOLD on Ferrea. A lot of the local Honda guys run them without a hicup and one good friend who ran Supertech (granted they were 5 or so years old) had his valves floating and were worn. It was brought to my attention the Ferrea may not be as good as they once were...

Looking at the few sites I know of that sell sets for these engines, you'll notice Ferrea at twice the price of the Supertechs. Does this necessarily mean they are better? I don't know.

Who else is there? Recommendations?

Thanks guys! I just want to be sure I only have to do this once

[amd is the best]

Ok, so a bit of an update.

Started pulling apart my spare 160k block:







Collection of spare crap:



Taking the cams out:



Head off:



Taking a blurry dip in the parts cleaner just to clean it up a bit:



Ready to be sent out to FRP (read below)



So with the top end being a little over my head (pun intended, lol) I decided to contact Jeff @ FRP. He cleared up all of my questions and provided me with a solid plan for my cylinder head which will be as follows:

Disassemble, hot tank head and glass bead ports and combustion chambers
Install 10 new Bronze / Manganese exhaust guides, hone to fit valve stems
Port Head - FRP Stage 2 to support max air flow of 32.5mm intake and 28.5mm exhaust valves
includes relieving around valve heads in combustion chamber and match chamber
size to your anticipated bore size
Re-machine valve seats with FRP design hi flow seat angles - 4 on intake 3 on exhaust with radius lower cut
Surface machine head for straightness and fresh sealing surface
Precision reassembly of head, blue print stem and spring heights, install and degree cams on dummy engine.

Using the following parts per Jeff's recommendation:
Supertech Stainless I.V.'s 32.5mm
Supertech Inconel E.V.'s 28.5mm
Supertech Hi Rate Chrome Silicon Valve Springs
Supertech Titanium Retainers
New Valve stem seals
New Cat Hydraulic Hi Lift Cams 1002305 (Duration @ .1mm: 279 / 275°, - Valve Lift @ TDC: 11.50 / 11.50mm - Lift @ TDC: 2.40 / 2.15mm)
FRP - Light Weight Valve Lifter Buckets

I thought about having this stuff done local and went back and forth on what parts to use but Jeff cleared up all my questions and it was then obvious to me that he was the guy for this task.

As for the bottom end, I will have that machine work done locally after I obtain a torque plate. Plan for bottom end:

Block hot tanked/cleaned/blasted
Bore to 82mm and hone
Check mains after ARP hardware is installed (align hone if necessary)
Crank checked (polishing if needed)
Balancing of rotating assembly
Check/replace oil pump

Anything I'm missing here?

Aside from all of that, I am working on my fuel system. As of right now the best option for big powered cars on E85 has been to use a surge tank. I don't mind the idea of a surge tank though I'd prefer to keep things more simple if I could. There are lots of other cars out there that use what is known as a "double pumper" or sometimes even triple when you place two or more pumps in the factory location (in tank). Very common on EVO/DSM/Supra/Etc. As previously posted, I ordered two Walbro F90000267's (400+lph) which should easily support my power at 3bar base pressure and a set of 2000's (a bit overkill actually).

Here's the pumps on our very festive table cloth:



And the part I have designed to install on the rubber isolaters in the factory pump basket:



My girlfriend says it looks like the dramatic lemur:



LOL, I see the resemblance!

I ordered a 3D print of this and it should be coming withing the next few weeks for my initial prototype. After I know it will work, I will need it reprinted in Polyethylene which is fuel safe. If I can't find someone who can print in PET, I'll have it CNC'd somewhere or have my father hand machine it.

I plan to double relay these pumps as they can draw over 20amps each! They will get Y'd together and sent up to the rail. I will try and use the factory line/filter however that may need to be upgraded. Not going to change it until I know it needs to be changed though.

There's a delay on my turbo from FP :( They said sometime after the holiday's I'd be getting a tracking number.

Aside from that, I'll be mailing my Wagner to Hank to fabricate my downpipe/WG adapter.

So yeah, that's about it for now.

[WOMBAT]

That's an intense update! Really great work going into this build Nick - really interested to see how the head works out for you. I'm still running stock with 263k mile seals and guides... maybe that's where my blow-by is coming from. I'm hoping in the next few years I can commit the funds to a proper head build like that! I'm pumped (oh puns!) to see how that double pump mount works out

[Mcstiff]

Nice update!

[chaloux]

:whistle:

[Dutchbroracer]

I have a desktop 3d printer...just sayin

[Clem86]

Very, very nice plans

Will you balance the crank with the flywheel ?

[loxxrider]

Hell yeah NIck, great work. I guess Jeff must have swayed you on the valve company debate

As for the bottom end... it seems that maybe you missed a few things. Like pistons and rods

[amd is the best]

Hell yeah NIck, great work. I guess Jeff must have swayed you on the valve company debate

As for the bottom end... it seems that maybe you missed a few things. Like pistons and rods

Those were posted previously but Wiseco 82mm 9.5:1, DMF I-beams, calico coated main and rod bearings and ARP hardware.

[PRY4SNO]

Well... this thread took a wild left turn after my last read. Interested for future updates!

I haven't heard any of the debate you mentioned about Ferrea going downhill, can you provide some links for my own research? From my understanding, they're actually cheaper for valves vs. ST but because you need the proprietary springs and keepers they end up coming in as slightly more expensive than ST; but, their basic valves' metallurgy are equal to a high end ST set.

[ringbearer]

40 amps for the fuel pumps is big!
Good call on the headwork, Jeffs work looks great.

Thanks for the update

[loxxrider]

Well... this thread took a wild left turn after my last read. Interested for future updates!

I haven't heard any of the debate you mentioned about Ferrea going downhill, can you provide some links for my own research? From my understanding, they're actually cheaper for valves vs. ST but because you need the proprietary springs and keepers they end up coming in as slightly more expensive than ST; but, their basic valves' metallurgy are equal to a high end ST set.

From what I've heard, some of the stuff they regularly carry on the shelf is now being made in China with poor quality control. The metallurgy isn't there either (obviously, since it is from China). I've been told of several cases of valves coming out of the box completely unusable or needing modification before they could be used. The same person told me that he's never seen that with the Supertech stuff.

That said, I'm still using the Ferrea bits in my engine as it will all be custom and using alloys spec'd for my build (like PACalloy for the springs, etc.). The non-off-the-shelf stuff from Ferrea is still very good. If you get in touch with Jeff Gerner at FRP he may be able to steer you in the right direction as far as this is concerned. He's got a lot of experience there.

[EDIGREG]

nice nick - gonna be a beast

[amd is the best]

My prototype fuel pump hanger will arrive tomorrow. Woot!