Ls1 in a small chassis?

[Zerb]

Anyone ever do it? Project Judas is obviously spectacular. Just curious if anyone's attempted...or is attempting...an LS based motor in a small chassis car.

posted from a computer in my pants

[speeding-g60]

i am laughing inside. only because i know you, and now you want an LS based project.

you never made the VR6 final, and now the 07K is on its way out.

AINT ADHD A MOTHA TRUCKA?????

but, on a more serious side. the new car, has been being built with modularity and the FUTURE in mind. as in, when i bore of the 20v 4cyl, i can put almost ANYTHING in its place. anything. like a 40v 4.2L V8 twin turbo, or single huge turbo. or maybe a LS motored turbo something or other. or even an Type 6 Turbo V6 Grand National motor in it.

[Zerb]

Who said it was gonna go in THIS car. :-0

posted from a computer in my pants

[Mcstiff]

Based on casual measurements, it'd take major work like moving the steering rack, firewall, and rear mounting the rad.

[JT4k]

I would think major work would have to be done just to keep the motor from sticking out the front of the car. LS7 is easy power but the mods needed would offset that for me unless I was going Rs4k style and doing a tube front end.

[speeding-g60]

to be the devils advocate here, and only KEEPING IT REAL.

you aint finished this car now for the past 2 years, what makes you think you are gonna start AND FINISH a new car?

just sayin, devils advocate, you know. not bustin your balls or nothin jus keepin it REAL!

[Zerb]

Who said it was my car Aaron ;-]

posted from a computer in my pants

[audifreakjim]

My buddy has a second to last gen rx7 with an ls swap. It's super clean and easy to do.

[speeding-g60]

Who said it was my car Aaron ;-]

posted from a computer in my pants

touche.....

[Zerb]

My buddy has a second to last gen rx7 with an ls swap. It's super clean and easy to do.

If it's not In an audi chassis. It'd be a e30. But that defeats the quattro + American v8 = daily driven smiles.

posted from a computer in my pants

[alxdgr8]

Lsx is smaller (width wise at least, not sure about length) than an audi v8 so it should be no problem. There was a b5 with a sbc swap a while back.

[scubadave]

I've driven an LS1 swapped 944 a handful of times. It was a riot...even for rwd. The engine is just too big to fit a small chassis audi without MAJOR mod to the car.

[Zerb]

Reason for retaining quattro drive train is because how much power you gonna put to the ground with say a 944?

posted from a computer in my pants

[Mcstiff]

Lsx is smaller (width wise at least, not sure about length) than an audi v8 so it should be no problem. There was a b5 with a sbc swap a while back.

Length & height are the main issues (the heights don't match below, 22.5" would not be too bad), a 3b is 23.25" from front pulley to transaxle mounting surface and "Corvette LS6 pics shown. Corvette LS2 would have different intake and different oil pan dimensions" (as we know some LS' have shorter acc. options):





Add the adaptor required a la Judas (~2"?) and you may be able to get it behind the grill if you run a rear rad. I'd still want to pull it back as much as I could; maybe you could clip the top of the bell housing and gain some steering clearance with the adaptor. I wonder if you could fit a large enough rad in the bumper...

Since the 4.2 was mentioned:

So I picked up a 2001 V8 from an A8 yesterday (AKB engine code) with 52k miles for $1400. It looks nice and clean and seemed like a good deal. I intend to put it into my Boxster S, which currently has 54k miles. Not knocking the Porsche engine, but the Audi engine has advantages:

1. Sounds much better.
2. Is much cheaper (cheaper parts too).
3. Does not have IMS failure potential.
4. Comes rated for 310 hp (vs 250 hp) from the factory.

I took measurements of this engine since that's the first thing I wanted to know when I got to this forum (thanks to hilly and timmmy for posting dimensions of other variants). Pics of the measurements are below, but here are the dimensions, rounded to the nearest 1/4":

2001 AKB dimensions:
Bottom of sump to top of black plastic valve thing on top of intake manifold: 26"
Bottom of sump to top of intake manifold: 24.5"
Left timing belt cover to right timing belt cover: 30.25"
Front of crank pulley to bell-housing face: 20"
Front of snout on fan pulley to bell-housing face: 21"

A few things to note on the dimensions:

1. I don't know what that black valve is (yet). Taking it off/relocating it would make the overall height 25" because the motor on the DBW throttle body sticks up another 0.5" above the intake manifold. Removing the e-gas and going with a cable throttle could potentially make the overall height just 24.5".

2. I do not intend to use the engine fan because this will go into a mid-engined application. So removing the fan pulley and re-routing the fan belt (possibly with another idler pulley) brings the length down to 20".

3. The exhaust manifolds on this engine do not stick out past the valve covers, which means that the upper timing covers determine the widest part of the engine.

This engine is short enough (20") front-to-back to fit the Boxster engine bay, and it is a full 6" narrower than the Boxster engine. The main challenge will be the height, which will end up at 25" after I move that valve. The bay can only accommodate 24", so something will have to be done about that. Maybe remove the deepest part of the sump and add sump volume in other areas? Dry sump? The other challenge will be mounting the engine, since the Boxster uses a single centered front engine mount and two tranny mounts.

Btw, I think I'll go with a SEMS for this and come up with some hack to mix a PWM idle control signal with a custom servo control for the e-gas throttle. If that doesn't work, I'll just find an IACV somewhere and fab up an adapter plate for a cable throttle (that may also happen if I need that additional 0.5" on the engine height).

Also btw, I am slow. My last swap took ~6 months and was practically a bolt-up affair, so don't expect twice-daily updates :wink:

And the pics:

Engine:


Height measurement:


Width measurement:


Length measurement:


The car:

[Mcstiff]

Ok, flip the TB to the rear, electric water pump, electric steering/pump, stuff the alt down where the AC compressor is (or on the other side to keep AC?) and maybe you can lose 2" off the stock crank dampener (I can't find one for 1 belt) and be at about 22" length.



:edit: The FWD LS4 is packaged for a single belt:

[Zerb]

The short answer is it'd be tight as hell. And if one were to want to eventually add forced induction, it's be a motherfucker.


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[speeding-g60]

i think turbos would be not as bad as the motor itself. rear mounts or under the front framerails.

[scubadave]

Ha ha ha, Ed, I have that motor in my garage as we speak. I got that puppy from wolfgang a few years back. I would be happy to part with it for way less than I got it for if there is interest.

[Mcstiff]

Yeah, but you'd really only "need" FI for >700HP (you can build a 454ci LS with the same footprint of a 350) or go with remote mounted turbos. It's still heavier than a fully dressed 07k so you really have to want a big NA to make it worthwhile (a 500whp LS is likely to cost more than a 07k too).

Ha ha ha, Ed, I have that motor in my garage as we speak. I got that puppy from wolfgang a few years back. I would be happy to part with it for way less than I got it for if there is interest.

Ha, I knew there were 4.2 dimensions in the archives, that was just the first thread that came up

[Mcstiff]

http://fortcollins.craigslist.org/pts/4534685380.html