Julian's '91 200 20vt

[pilihp2]

Because of the messed up triggers you won't be getting voltage at cranking. VEMS Isn't allowing voltage because it's not picking up proper engine signals.
Let me find a picture of a proper looking trigger log so you'll know what to look for.

[pilihp2]

Here we go.

[88a5tq]

Oh God what the hell is wrong with mine lol?! My primary looks like a roller coaster but I guess my secondary looks fine...

I noticed my log looks quite similar to the log posted for this m3: http://www.vems.hu/wiki/index.php?page= ... BmwInstall

[pilihp2]

Primary is wacky, and you're not getting enough secondaries.


So confuse

[themagellan]

Here's a stupid question, is your alternator belt on and are you making voltage while running? Seems like all the old audi systems work with a nice +14v current. Also if the wirings all laid out in the back tin foil strips make some cheap easy interference cancelers for testing.

[88a5tq]

Yep everything ran fine before switching ECU's. I think it made more like 13.5v instead though but i've never had any battery or alternator issues with it. I did run the power wire on the same side as my boost gauge light ground and launch control relay ground. I put my battery on the charger because it was at 11 volts this morning. That may be an issue lol. I think maaaaybe my trigger log looks lacking because I was zoomed too far in. I'll put a better one up later. I will also jack the front drivers side up and roll wheel in gear to check for crud on the flywheel teeth if its not raining. I parked the dam car in a huge parking lot away from electrical outlets and freaking shade! I probably will push it elsewhere soon...

I should also mention this has an 034 aluminum FW with a beefy reference pin (than stock) and its new along with the clutch and rear main seal. I cleaned the FW sensors like a month ago and and their mating surfaces. Please advise Marc. Also thanks a bunch to everyone who has chimed in so far! Especially Phil as you've been helping me with effed up Audi crap since I was preplanning the 3B swap.

[themagellan]

Is your distributor shit still hooked up? Might be a fun thing to diagnose this with

[88a5tq]

I have no idea how to even reverse the COP settings to dizzy. Was preconfigured and have no hookup instructions really for COP conversion harness per se. Heres my log without any zoom:

[88a5tq]

Im so close I can almost taste the fuel... literally. Covered in it matter of fact. Anyway I counted pin 1 from the wrong side of the ignition output plug. I was only getting spark from coil 5 and from looking at the plug pin-out, that would be the only one correct if I wired the plug from either side. Eureka! I now get spark at all 5 coils during testing. When I tried for the first time to crank the engine with them wired correctly, I hydrolocked the damn engine with fuel... I was really happy about that shit. So I went on to test for voltage at the 2 dry cylinders (rest were filled up to tops with fuel) and found everything was working with them. That's where I stopped today. I did take one of the filled cylinder's injectors out and put it in the rail where the cylinder was dry but there was so much fuel on the engine by then that I decided to quit and let it evaporate overnight. Right, so anybody ever had their cylinders hydrolock when first trying to start up??? On the phone, Marc did confirm my trigger logs look fine so yay lol. He was very patient and walked me through the testing procedures that made the gained ground possible today. Kudos!


Just checked the req_fuel setting and its at 7.5 so that's fine I guess.

[Marc]

can you post your full triggerlog please? (not just a screenshot). thanks.

[88a5tq]

Yep absolutely, I'm charging the battery a but again and will get that after work first thing

[88a5tq]

These 2 are from before I figured out the COP harness pin-out was backwards but maybe they will be of use until tonight.

[pilihp2]

Sorry. I'm over here giving bad advice. Didn't look at the numbers of yours. secondary to primary ratio does look correct. My bad!

[Marc]

yeah, so 135 flywheel teeth, x 2 (per cam sync, two revolutions of crank) = 270 / 3 (standard auditrigger divider - in software) = 90. meaning, we need to see 90 primary triggers between every secondary. and we do, so he should be sparking fine. if he's flooding out with fuel that probably means we have wrong settings for the injectors, or something else happening. lets also see a regular vemslog while cranking too. (click the red "log" button. it will turn green. crank for 5 seconds or so, then click the button again, it will turn red again. send along the .vemslog that got created in your vems directory).

[88a5tq]

No harm Phil, I asked you for help and you didn't break anything either. Im just glad I have people to help me troubleshoot.

Good news, car started but it was on the residual fuel left in the cylinders haha. I know this because I turned the key first thing and it primed the fuel pump but I then took the fuse out of the fuel pump relay in the trunk so I could test the coils without wasting battery. It started and ran for about 2 seconds and the rpm rose to about 1400 but soon died. Im CLOSER though. Heres 2 vems logs and I couldn't remember which one was of more use since the second attempt (I thought) didn't save since I immediately shut the key off. I guess it did. Here they are. I don't even know what the 3rd log is from today???

VEMS is great with the software layout and stuff. It feels so precise and scientific sort of like a CAD program. I love it, its so freaking....... versatile!

[88a5tq]

I got it running finally. Its blowing white smoke though out tailpipe? I think its all the fuel in exhaust system from not starting (hopefully). When I give it throttle it just dies for some reason. Also I left req_fuel at 7.5 but changed cc/min to 300 which probably doesn't do anything since its display only. Just glanced at the laptop and lambda was last at 1.83!

[pilihp2]

How long was it running for? Lambda reading won't be accurate till it's warmed up or till the 02 has warmed up.

[88a5tq]

Like a minute. I think it will run indefinitely until I try to give it even slight throttle. Two things that cause car to die:
1- giving throttle
2- unplugging ISV

engine runs fine except the valves are noisier probably from fuel in head (?) and coolant level is where it was pre-swap thank god. Here's the vemslog from it running and when I unplugged the ISV at the end.


EDIT: Checked oil dipstick and level is normal and no fuel on it so no oil change like I thought would be necessary. During this log I changed req_fuel to 7.1 by calculating for 300 cc/min injectors if I remember right. It didn't actually change the how dense the white smoke was though. I was too concerned about the smoke to let the car warm up but if its normal for being untuned Ill run it longer tomorrow.

[Marc]

yeah, looks rich from what I can see (lambda warms up and it just goes full .65 lambda rich). stock injectors?

go ahead and reduce REQ_FUEL to 6.5. let it warm all the way up. blue/white smoke indicates oil smoke, might have a leaky turbo? send another log. let coolant temp get up to at least 60c.

[88a5tq]

Smoke is pure white in this case. Could even see fuel residue I think soaking through the DP joint under the wastegate. Yes stock FPR and injectors. Thanks Marc, I'll report back

[88a5tq]

This is getting discouraging for sure. Still have pure white smoke from tailpipe no matter how long it runs. Theres crap forming in the end of the exhaust, fuel pushing past the manifold gaskets, and apparently no spark on cylinder 5. Switched back to the old motronic stuff and undid the FW sensor polarity and put narrowband O2 back in and car but no longer starts (except with pedal floored with VEMS hooked up). Also, I think my starter f#cked up a tooth on my new damn flywheel from the hydrolock as, like clockwork, during cranking there is a loud clack that stops once the starter is disengaged. WTF!? Its either my brand new starter is screwed up, my brand new FW gear is, or cylinder 5 developed zero compression (will check tomorrow), all since the switch... Unplugging cyl. 5 fuel injector plug doesn't affect exhaust note/smoke color but doing so to the other injectors does affect the note. Testing of the coils produces spark everytime, every coil, however when I pulled my new plugs today to check them out, #5 looked BRAND NEW. The other 4 appeared fine/reasonably used. There is no milkshake in the oil cap, no pressurization of the coolant reservoir OR bubbles during running. I am reasonably frightened for my young engine. Its only running on 4 cylinders. When shut down, the smoke continues to billow out from the exhaust. When I test the fuel pump with the plugs out, theres is no fuel coming from the injectors from leakage either. After cranking though # 5 always seems to have a cm of raw fuel sitting on the piston. And when the hell did my gauge cluster stop saying "OK" ?? BTW I could still read codes on the stock ECU, 2111 or whatever it is for the VR sensor. When I removed the O2 sensor to recalibrate it for fun I looked inside the exhaust manifold and it was completely saturated with what I can only guess is fuel, PUDDLES even right below the sensor and coming out around the sensor's crush oring. At one point, 2 days ago while cranking and not starting/flooding, the engine bucked HARD to the right side and halted (probably when I screwed up my FW or starter gears). It was violent to say the least.

[pilihp2]

Take a break for a bit, dude.

Mine took a good while to get figured out.
Even though it is Plug and play it's not always super easy to get setup

[88a5tq]

Ya Im taking tomorrow off lol. When I saw that clean plug I was like AWWWWWWWWWWW Fck. Im just worried Ive done Irreversible damage to the rods or something

I did try to set req_fuel to 6.5 but it would not start even when floored unless it was set to 6.9 so I did attempt that

[Marc]

ok. so, sounds like we have an issue with the #5 coil, the wiring to it, or compression. do some tests on that channel to make sure it sparks. also double check the wire diagram to make sure its in the correct cylinder order.

you didn't have to reverse the pin back to stock to get motronic to work, it will still run the same with that pin swapped.

[88a5tq]

Ok so now that i've taken a step back from things, I guess the next logical steps are to change the coil ground to directly to battery (just in case), pull injectors/rail for testing of # 5, then pull starter to take a peak-see. If the primary signal is still good enough to start the car then a tooth might just need filed a little. Compression test first though on #5