Chris' 200 20v Avant - RENNWGN - Blowed Up

[loxxrider]

Nice, thanks Ed. Maybe I'll just always carry one with me just in case. Fuel pump relay too.

[PRY4SNO]

Need a vote or two...

If I was going to put a bigger turbo on this car, it'd probably be an efr, the one around 30r ish size. They can make 350whp on 93 pretty easily I think. I wouldn't push it much, maybe put some rods in.

"30r ish size" is an interesting dilemma when sizing EFR turbos.

In the end I picked a 7163 because it has more top end and overall potential than the 6758. From what I could tell it was somewhere between a billet 30r and a cast 35r in output, but spooled like something even smaller.

Considering the fact you'll have an uber-revver at one point, perhaps revving out your daily isn't as appealing... what about a 6758 with a QSV and meth?


Have you played around with the MatchBot yet?

[loxxrider]

I do think that's along the lines of what I want, although I don't think I'll use meth. I will just want it quick and reliable on pump gas. 6758 with or without quick spool valve would be great. If I used a qsv, I'd definitely want rods though.

I played with their matching tool for the airwerks turbos, but not for efr yet. I think I know which one I want though, the 6758. Id day this is more than a year off though, if at all.

[audifreakjim]

Chris, it's funny, I would argue that a QSV actually reduces the need for rods. It really smooths out the rubber band effect and gets rid of the sudden torque spike.

[mushasho]

Chris, it's funny, I would argue that a QSV actually reduces the need for rods. It really smooths out the rubber band effect and gets rid of the sudden torque spike.

So the earlier build of torque isn't a rod killer because it's smoother with a QSV?...

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[pilihp2]

QSV Requires header which definitely gets even more involved. As cool as a QSV would be, that's even more money and work put into it. If youre doing a header, you should do rods, and if youre doing rods, you really should go to an 01e.

slippery slope.

[loxxrider]

It doesn't require a header, just a fancy adapter flange. It would definitely require the downpipe to be tweaked though.

[loxxrider]

Chris, it's funny, I would argue that a QSV actually reduces the need for rods. It really smooths out the rubber band effect and gets rid of the sudden torque spike.

So the earlier build of torque isn't a rod killer because it's smoother with a QSV?...

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That's my question as well. Seems like it would allow torque even earlier and if tuned right could provide more torque than the turbo in standard configuration could at torque peak. I'm not sure that it's the abruptness of the torque that matters, it's how much torque that matters. There's no time dependent variable on force applied to the rods unless you're talking about an impulse force which this is not.

[audifreakjim]

Yeah, after you think it through it probably doesn't matter. It's the hard to control boost spike on turbos that have violent spool that probably kills most rods. Good boost control is probably the most important on a motor without rods.

[loxxrider]

True, I agree. I'm still curious why "torque spikes" seem to affect internals more than sustained torque of the same amount as a spike though. Not trying to argue at all, just thinking.

Maybe it's just that brief detonation can occur and go unnoticed with torque spikes like that, or maybe it's because since the engine is spinning more slowly, the component is exposed to the force for longer. That shouldn't matter either though from a mechanical standpoint. I need to think more. Better yet, don't think and just put it on there with a qsv and rods

[chaloux]

Lol. The beauty of a qsv is definitely more of a tq curve than spike. As you're nearing peak boost it starts to open, softening the tq onslaught and I think making it easier to tune as well. Spreads the peak over a broader range of cells. But you should be able to accomplish the same thing with good boost control.

I dunno I ain't an engineer. I vote 6758 and qsv on a T3 rs2 type manifold. As long as there's room for the actuator being that close to the head.

[loxxrider]

Should even be able to do that on a stock flanged manifold like Nick is doing. Just takes a nice adapter.

I see how it could ease the spike in boost for sure now, but since there is more boost being generated earlier, this should translate into more torque than would be made at the same boost level at a higher rpm. I think.

[audifreakjim]

It's just like having small AR exhaust housing. I always thought it would be more violent until I tried one. The smaller housing spools more linear where as the larger housings are more exponential.

[mushasho]

Guess it makes practical sense in the real world since there's less revs=less velocity=less violence... This is my interpretation of all that..

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[loxxrider]

Yes, I agree that the bigger housings are more violent and why they are.

However, I don't see how the sharpness of the torque increase has any effect on internal stresses. I think it's all about when it happens and how much torque that results in.

[pilihp2]

I'd be curious how well you could control boost with the spool of a 6758 on a QSV. IE, it not spiking to infinity and beyond.
I'm also wondering if you could actually fit a qsv adapter flange inbetween the turbo and manifold without it hitting anything and fitting. I'm sure the flange would work in theory, just seems like a large decrease in flow for an already poor flowing manifold.

and believe me, if this is possible, sign me the fuck up.

[loxxrider]

We will probably get a better idea of how this might fit based on Nick's avant. The adapter could be angled if needed too.

What is a large decrease in flow? You mean when the qsv is closed?

Also, I think it'd be plenty controllable with the right tuner at the controller helm.

[iammrfancypants]

Ugh so sexy. I really really like Lago Blue (biased) and would love an avant. Congrats!

[chaloux]

Controlling dad's (albeit much bigger) turbo with the qsv was very easy with vems and an n75. You'd simply open it up sooner, and make sure to run a bigger hotside than what you normally would. Have you guys qsv any of the mule's setups Phil?

[loxxrider]

Hank half assedly tried to talk me into sending the car to him to put the efr on it now.

I laughed, but now it's got me thinking irrationally. Dammit! How do you do this Hank? All he has to do is drop a hint and then it's all downhill from there.

"No, I will not do it!" "But it'd be so awesome!"

I feel like Golem. The (internal) struggle is real.

[themagellan]

Chris thanks for setting me straight with the VEMS, I have read through your build numerous times, and you are right.

The smeagol in me thinks you should have him just ship you a bolt on 6758, and 'Borrow' the VEMS unit/Injectors from the ol' Revver' pick the clutch (have apikol do this to keep your hands pretty) and show up to carlisle with that, and be done with it for a while. I would be infinitely jealous, and further keep talking about myself buying an EFR until my teeth fall out.

Whatever you do, I would pick an option that allows you to keep using it on a daily basis.

[loxxrider]

That is pretty much how I'm rationalizing it too... Borrow the vems (injectors are already sold) and just bolt that bad boy on. Only problem is the downpipe probably wouldn't work out without being modified.

Or maybe send him the car to do the clutch while installing an efr. Probably not a good idea for my wallet.

[dana]

just chuck some rods in there and run what ever turbo you want. Quit being a pussy. You know you want to.

[loxxrider]

Lol I want a small-ish turbo though for this car. Rods would be sweet but require too much downtime.

[chaloux]

Oh man. Bring it to Carlisle. Need to take my kids for a ride.