Ben’s and then Eric's and now somebody else’s V8 CQ

[DE80q]

The sensor for the trigger that you are loosing. I'm assuming its a 60-2 using either a VR or Hall sensor. Sorry I'm not entirely sure what your setup is.

[Grillage]

I lose everything. I'm using auditrigger so I have the Starter ring as one trigger and the hall sensor / crank pin as the other.

When I add that plug, I lose all triggers.

[Grillage]

More Developments,

I went and got different Plugs (the ones from the V8 were old and a little funky so I wanted to remove them as a possible culprit). Also, all my boots were split so I got new boots too.

with everything disconnected, I did a few more trigger tests. Here's what I got...



Then with everything installed I get this...


If you'll notice, on the first one, the secondary trigger drops off - or does the white line stop because there isn't another secondary trigger to connect it to before I shut the engine off? That's my Crank Pin which is only visible when the Hall Sensor sees the 10mm window in the cam sensor.

So I guess I troubleshoot the Cam Sensor with everything re-connected

[kieron_32v]

Ground from ECU


Ground from Coils
passenger side:

driver side:

Do yourself a favour and put that ground terminal straight to bare metal on the head, I see a suitable threaded hole just to the right, give it a clean up with some scotch brite or something before. Paint and crusty studs/nuts won't be doing you any help.

[kieron_32v]

Ground from ECU

Do yourself a favour and put that ground terminal straight to bare metal on the head, I see a suitable threaded hole just to the right, give it a clean up with some scotch brite or something before. Paint and crusty studs/nuts won't be doing you any help.

[kieron_32v]

In fact, just looked over my wiring, I ran my ecu ground straight to my battery terminal as per the instructions with my ecu, which was a IIc, but you can't get a better ground than the battery.... Sensor ground can be away from the battery and on the head. Different instructions vems vs IIc I know, but mine fired on literally the first try.

[Grillage]

I now get nothing cranking with everything installed.

I moved the ground as Kieron suggested (good idea by the way) and there is no change.
New Location:


So then I pull the plugs from Cyl 1 and 5 and see what happens.
POP POP!
and here's the weird triggerlog from that - i did this twice with the same effect...

[Marc]

Please upload the cleanest copy of a trigger log that you have so I can look at the whole thing.

[Marc]

Also a standard cranking vems log file so I can review the config

[Grillage]

The Plot Thickens!

I was able to get the car to run on 6 cylinders!

http://youtu.be/y_0Y8NoH1hE

Here's a pic of that logfile, still wonky but once it gets running it looks okay

and a closeup of the end where the car is running for a few...


Heres the triggerlog file of that run

ItRanon6.triggerlog

(3.5 KiB) Downloaded 1845 times

[Marc]

regular log of it running like that on 6 please (.vemslog). I think that triggerlog is ok but I want to see a couple other things first. I'm out most of the rest of today but will review tonight.

[Grillage]

Got it! here you go!

v3.3_u009476-2015.06.14-17.08.57.vemslog

(77 KiB) Downloaded 1874 times

A quick start with 5 or 6 seconds of running after. I don't want to run long since I have no cooling set up at all

[Marc]

ok, so when your triggering is running on 6 like this, its correct. i've got you configured for "div by 17". you have 136 teeth on your v8 flywheel ring gear. full engine cycle is 2 revolutions of the crank, or 272 teeth. divided by 17 is 16 teeth. as you will see in your trigger log you have 16 primary pulses between every secondary pulse. so, thumbs up there.

couple of things I see in the main datalog:

#1 hook up your vacuum line. the ecu is not seeing engine vacuum when the engine is running.

#2 your MAT (manifold air temperature) is pegged at -40, so something not right there.

as a result of your vacuum line not being hooked up, its trying to send a ton of fuel to the engine (25ms at idle) which is super fat and will cause it to run mega rich.

so, fix those easy things first and we will see about some potential causes for trigger problems with all the coils hooked up.

Oh, one other thing, after you fix these things: will the engine rev up with no trigger errors on 6 cylinders? test and report.

[kieron_32v]

It's loosing trigger with just the plugs in their holes though, coils not connected, so where's the noise coming from?

Good one this, very frustrating for you though! Intriguing to say the least.

[Grillage]

Thanks Marc and Kieron! I need to find a vac diagram to connect everything, I havent even tho you ght of that yet.

And yes, the plug just needs to be in the well to kill the triggers. The coils dont need to be hoooked up.

ill get a log and vid of a higher rev attempt tonight.

[Grillage]

Fixed the Temp issue - I forgot to plug it in.
Also ran a hose from the IM to the ECU

I ran it again tonight on 6 cylinders - ran rougher than yesterday. Got a Vemslog of that - the action starts at 1:00

v3.3_u009476-2015.06.15-19.27.42.vemslog

(177 KiB) Downloaded 1909 times

Then I put all 8 plugs in and coils too. It started up for the first time with all 8 in there. Without any real difference from before

I'll post the triggerlog from that - it looks weird

[Grillage]

All 8.triggerlog

(1.5 KiB) Downloaded 1889 times

looks like half running

[Marc]

your triggerlog is saying that the secondary trigger is going away on occasion. thats either reference pin or cam sensor since it is comprised of both.

to diagnose, you can rule out the cam sensor by grounding its signal pin. the engine will only start 50% of the time like this (depending on the rest position of the motor) but what that does is listen to the reference pin at all times. see if you get consistent secondary trigger like that.

[Grillage]

Marc,

thanks for the feedback. I was worried about the pin when I had to put the spacer in behind the flywheel. This is my crank pin view down the sensor hole...


Definitely visible but not the whole pin.

I'll try to get this figured out this weekend.

In other news, I need to get the exhaust and cooling figured out. I have the V8's radiator and hoses so I am hoping they'll install with a B4 front crossmember.

As for Exhaust, I need suggestions. I saved the V8's rear muffler too but it seems like just going full aftermarket is the way to go. What size pipes do I want? 2 1/2" going into 3" ? How do I know the best solution to eliminate drone?

[DE80q]

George is planning to run a Stebro cat back with custom downpipes. Might be somthing to think about.

[Grillage]

I'm thinking about the cooling system too now.

I saved the V8's radiator and all associated hoses so I would think that's the easiest solution.

I got a V6 crossmember and installed it today but the V8 radiator is a bit too wide and tall to fit as is...


Its feet hit the mounting points on the crossmember...



Seems like I should just remove those and figure another way to mount right?

[DE80q]

Why not use a V6 radiator?

[Grillage]

Everything I've read on these swaps says that cooling is the biggest issue. I don't think the V6 would be big enough

[Grillage]

The more I think about this, a V6 would be SOOO much easier. and I have a spare from a Cab I parted a few years ago. It would certainly be the cheapest and easiest option to try it. Also, without AC I could add another fan where the condenser should be.

Hmmmmm.

[DE80q]

Knowning that it fits in that front end already, I would try it.