Nick's 1991 Audi 200 20VTQ Avant - Sold

[loxxrider]

Good idea on the timing belt and cog. It never hurts. Make sure to do the tensioner too and water pump... Both can have catastrophic consequences if they fail. Don't get the crap parts either.

I wouldn't do the head gasket personally. I've never seen one blow that wasn't becuase of the tune or something else fail first (on these cars). My sedan had the stock one all its life (18x k miles) and my avant still has the stock one at 230k. Nick S 's avant and sedan also had stock hg until the avant blew it's gasket due to some kind of fuel problem. Both at over 300k. Don't change it.

If anything, put some arp studs in one by one, but even that isn't necessary.

You're still on stock turbo right? There is no need for a different exhaust manifold on stock turbo. The turbo itself is the choking point. After that, there are some stock fitment manifolds that work well like rs2 and sport quattro. Nick S knows more about those than I do though.

034 makes a log manifold, but it isn't stock fitment for turbo and wastegate. It works fine on 30r sized turbos.

[20VAvant]

So i'm in need of some help fellas...

I pulled the front end of the car apart this last week and replaced a radiator (a replacement from a year ago cracked along the bottom...?)
Anyways I was looking into doing the timing belt so I took the intercooler and all that jazz of for access.
I was talking to previous owner and he brought me a receipt saying it was done 40K ago and its not really in the budget right now so i decided to leave it.

I put everything back together. The boot from the compressor to intake has seen much better days and is full of little tears.

So here is my issue. It starts. Idles fine, but the idle is high - 1200 vs normal 7-800.
I start going and it drives fine until it starts to go into boost. It stumbles over itself while trying to create boost. it spikes at like 15PSI but I stopped driving it because I'm afraid it cause damage.

Anyone experienced this before? Did I leave something unplugged?

It figures that as soon as I take the Audi apart a u-joint on my truck goes out....Taking my bike to work in the rain is a blast.....

[loxxrider]

Since you are on VEMS the tears in the intake boot don't matter. You could pop a boost hose off and be open throttle body for all the engine and ECU care. It would run great as long as you tuned that portion of the map and the MAP sensor is seeing an accurate reading. That's part of the beauty of VEMS

Sounds like you have an ignition issue to me (although that doesn't explain the high idle). That high idle could be a separate issue. There should be no reason for it to sputter and stumble if your AFR is in check and you aren't having an ignition issue. Fuel could be pretty far off and not cause symptoms like that, so you're looking at something ignition related most likely.

[20VAvant]

So i think I may have traced down one of my issues.
I hooked up VEMS tonight and was watching everything when I noticed that my coolant temp was reading -40C and wasn't changing.

This would completely mess up my fueling tables, correct?

The thing is that the gauge in the car is moving with the temp of the engine, but VEMS is reading a constant -40C

Any advice? Am I right in trying to chase this lead?

I ordered a coil on plug kit thinking it was an ignition issue, but i've wanted to that for awhile anyways....

[loxxrider]

Check to see if warmup enrichment is active while the car is running and warmed up.

There are two coolant sensors in the car. Could be that one of yours is bad and it is the one that VEMS uses, not the one the gauge in the dash uses.

Definitely chase this lead, especially if warmup enrichment is being activated unnecessarily because of it. In the short term, you can turn warmup enrichment off until you get the sensor fixed. (just put 100% everywhere)

[chaloux]

Chris I would normally agree with you but Ross has had some very funny engine running problems with the 4k all related to vacuum hoses. Like a terrible barely running idle. Twice. Each time it turned out to be a hose that has blown off. NOW, one time, it was the ECU reference line so that makes sense. I can't say which one it was the other time because he "hooked a bunch up and it was gone". So I'd say as long as the reference line is good he's fine.

VEMS is also hard to get to change idle rpm. At least in my experience. More timing helps with a higher idle. Sorry I can't be of more help.

[loxxrider]

I'm not saying there aren't possibly other issues, but the CLT sensor is obviously broken, so why not fix it? Having a sensor that constantly reads -40C will throw at least 50% more fuel in. That isn't going to be helpful!

[chaloux]

Yeah definitely! I think I remember having something similar, I must have been looking at logs. The coolant temp was cold but warmup enrichment was off. Once we determined the vacuum line was borked I stopped thinking about that problem.

[20VAvant]

Guys,

Just realized I have no idea what that sensor is....there are 2 sensors on the water manifold as well....I'm assuming I was pulling the radiator fan switch...which wouldn't tell me anything.... It has to be a sensor on the water manifold which suck to get to..

I'm guessing this is the sensor VEMS uses the bad sensor.....

I adjusted all of the coolant settings on my tables and was able to get the idle to normal and was able to drive the car without the lurching.
It doesn't appear to be a vacuum leak as I double checked all of the hoses and connections. It was able to hold boost up to 20PSI.

It ran okay, not great but I assume this has to do with some settings still not being adjusted well enough.

With this said I'm having trouble finding a correct looking sensor to replace this. Anyone have a p/n?

Thanks everyone for the help!

[yodasfro]

The coolant temp sensor for the ECU is in the back of the head g62 temp sensor is it's name.
http://forums.quattroworld.com/s4s6/msgs/20985.phtml

[loxxrider]

Yep, I'm fairly certain that's the one you need to try replacing.

[20VAvant]

Thanks guys!

I have one on order and will update when I have it situated and hopefully back to normal!

[20VAvant]

The Audi is now up and driving.

It turns out it probably wasn't the sensor that was bad....

I swapped out the sensor and hooked up my computer and was glad to see a realistic temperature showing. I took the car for a short drive and it was driving just like it used to, but shortly after the same symptoms started.

I pulled over to a gas station and popped the hood. The second I touched the sensor plug on the back of the head the idle settled back down but it went back up the second my hand left.

It turns out my month of frustration (although I didn't aggressively pursue the issue) all lead up to a pin on the coolant temperature sensor had come out of the plug...The boot that goes around it didn't make it obvious and Audi left about .5" of extra wire length to examine..

I'm gonna drive it for a week to make sure everything has settled out and then start the coil on plug conversion!

[audifreakjim]

It's usually something silly like that. Maddening at times!

[20VAvant]

Everyone,

I need some advice.

Over the last few weeks I have been contemplating selling the 200.......

I purchased a motorcycle in early April and my Cummins last June and between those 2 vehicles I have severely lost interest in the Audi. The Audi is 100% paid for including all the work that I have into it and insurance is only 16$ a month on it, so money is not the issue. I just hate letting it sit all the time maybe taking it out once or twice a month.

What would it be worth?
1991 Audi 200 Avant, Pearl White with Black interior. ~180K miles
All power windows, heated seats, moonroof, speakers, differential lock, and other electronics all function.
There is very minimal rust on the car, a few dents here and there and the rood/hood paint has seen better days.

That being said the car is currently running VEMS with upgraded injectors and is on bilsteins all around. It is custom shortened in the front including having the shock shortened by Bilstein and re-valved for my springrates.
It has alot of new bushings, engine mounts, etc.
I also have COP kit waiting to be installed as well as bluetooth.
It is on 18"x9.5" eBay wheels and might have 3000-4000 miles on them. Tires and wheels are in great shape.

I could part VEMS out since I kept the stock ECU, but it would be easier to move the car as a whole.

I am moving from my apartment where I currently keep it garaged year round into a house with a friend where it would have to sit outside and I really don't want to do that.

Thoughts? I love this car but I need someone to convince me to keep it.....

[loxxrider]

Needs bigger terbo. Then your won't want to sell.

Really though, you might regret not having something fairly reliable but practically free to own and operate if you sell it. There is nothing better at an overall package for fun and utility at a cost effective price point. If you ever plan to have kids, this will be the prefect family hauler!

Also, these things can handle sitting outside. Tint the windows and get a sunshade for the windshield. The interior will hold up and having it sit for weeks at a time is no big deal either. Most of my cars sit for months between uses. It doesn't bother me a bit.

[Aktapod]

Extensive modifications aside, you've currently got one of the most unique cars out there: a manually-shifted AWD wagon with a lockable rear diff, powered by 5 cylinders of turbocharged fury, with room to transport/terrify your friends and family in heated leather seats and the groceries in the back. To top it off, it's 1 of only 133 originally in the country! If you were to mention any of these characteristics to those unaffiliated with them, you'll get a look of bewilderment, followed by some variation of "That thing??"

It's not the uniqueness that's important, though. Those features all come together to form the ultimate combination of speed, comfort and utilitarian pleasure, while drawing minimal attention to itself. You've laid the groundwork to make it real monster, and, while it won't match the acceleration of your motorcycle, I don't doubt a change in the turbo will put a smile on your face every time.

Maybe I'm a little dramatic? Sure! But as Chris said, you're not doing it a disservice by letting it sit right now, and you'll always have the option of getting back into it to romp around as you please! These aren't collectors' cars; it's not going to lose value from being exposed to the elements for a while.

At the core, it's just a well-rounded sports wagon, and it's hardly costing anything to keep it. Why risk letting it become "the one that got away?"

[pilihp2]

I'd keep it. I drive my 5k rarely right now because I take my s4 to work or my old ass ninja 600, but when I do drive the 5k it's a blast. I'm slowly working on getting some stuff done to it and I know I'll love driving it that much more when that stuff is done. Especially when winter comes around.


ALSO.
Is the fz07 awesome? I'm stuck on an fz07 or a ktm duke 690 right now. Tough decisions.

[20VAvant]

ALSO.
Is the fz07 awesome? I'm stuck on an fz07 or a ktm duke 690 right now. Tough decisions.

The FZ07 is awesome. It's my first road bike, but I've put 5500 miles on it 4 months. Its really lightweight (376lbs) with the aftermarket exhaust so its very nimble and very comfortable to ride. I sometimes crave more speed from it, but the ~130mph top speed keeps me safe...

As for the Audi, I think I will just buy a nice car cover then and let it sit since none of you Audi guys seems to have a problem with it. I've just always been one to feel bad since I know someone else would enjoy the car instead of my letting it collect dust for months at a time.

[loxxrider]

Yes, get a custom covercraft cover if you can swing it. I can recommend you the best material too because not all of theirs are great for outdoor weather for years at a time. I had a custom one from them for the 200 sedan which lasted for a few years in the Florida sun. I'd take it on and off all the time in the rain which tore it up eventually in combination with the sun. It was one of those "loose" fiber ones. But I bought their top of the line one for my E30 M3. It is awesome. The irony is that I store that car inside lol.

Anyway, I'd much rather have someone own one of these who has the means to take care of it and have it sit for periods of time than for someone to use it all the time but let it go to shit because they can't afford to keep it how it should be kept (in terms of maintenance).

[themagellan]

Yes, get a custom covercraft cover if you can swing it. I can recommend you the best material too because not all of theirs are great for outdoor weather for years at a time. I had a custom one from them for the 200 sedan which lasted for a few years in the Florida sun. I'd take it on and off all the time in the rain which tore it up eventually in combination with the sun. It was one of those "loose" fiber ones. But I bought their top of the line one for my E30 M3. It is awesome. The irony is that I store that car inside lol.

Anyway, I'd much rather have someone own one of these who has the means to take care of it and have it sit for periods of time than for someone to use it all the time but let it go to shit because they can't afford to keep it how it should be kept (in terms of maintenance).

This. I've never been one to tell people how to use or sell their cars but in terms of having something close to a unicorn... well, you have it. Additionally you have an extremely good example of one! I think if anything you'll receive applaud from the community for holding onto it, keeping it functional, and not ruining it.

I have had the exact same feeling about selling my car many times, especially with them actually fetching a decent price ($4,000-$8,000 Depending on miles and modifications.) Every single time, I review my car I realize no one will buy it for more than $5,000. But where on earth will you ever find a car that can match up to the 200 20vt package overall? How far will an extra $5000 go, and how quickly will it go there?

Keep in mind I just have a sedan!

The other thing is that through all of these feelings of wanting to sell, the car has really sat and not been abused or modified due to this. The best part about it is that while it's been sitting, it's been becoming more valuable every day. I bought the car with 104,000 Miles and within a year put about 13,000 miles, after that I put on an additional 6,000. The past year I have put 32 miles onto the car, and I don't expect to put more than a 1,000 by 2016.

Fast forward to present day reality - In 2016 I will have a near bone stock Audi 200 with 123,000 miles that it an absolute perfect platform to finally start building on. It's taken me ~3 years to really finally have the time and resources to understand and appreciate what I have, and have the opportunity to actually start building on it. If I had sold it for 4k/5k/6k, I can almost guarantee I would be kicking my own ass and jealously browsing for a replacement for it. Now i'm planning to make it into the car I dreamed about since the first day of buying it.

Anyway, I guess what i'm trying to say is: Hold on to it, you owe nothing on it and I can't imagine how you would regret keeping it. Just give it attention; Change the oil, Start it every two weeks, move it around so the tires don't get flat spots, and enjoy it for what it is - A fine vintage.

You are sitting on one of the finest bottles of wine made in 1991.

[Juizer]

Keep it.

Here's a link for german car site that has 20v 200 for sale, I'm thinking prices will just go up with these.
http://goo.gl/RErjSv
I mean the coupe quattros cost billions, why would the price of these go down?

Cheapest avant 200 20v, 7999€, a bit over 9000$
All thought from a second owner (yeah, right) but has the ac dismantled..

[20VAvant]

Took the avant to a car show this past weekend. Had a few people compliment it!

In other news....
I've had the car listed for sale on my facebook and instagram for a few days now. I'm pretty set on price and if someone doesn't offer me asking I'm going to keep it.

I need some motivation to remove the listing and to keep moving on the project.

I've kind of hit a weird spot in the build. I've mostly done weekend or week long projects up until now, keeping the car moving as much as possible. I'm to a point where I'm really craving some more power from it. I'm running 20-21 PSI on the stock turbo/clutch and while its fun, I crave more. The issue is that you can't just do this piece by piece.

There are a few small projects like a strut bar and some bushings I'd like to get done/made, but I'm in a panic with the motor. I think it's time for a rebuild with the 7A cams I have laying around and to clean it up to get it to the point I want it.

The car already has VEMS and some 750cc fuel injectors. I have COP 2.0 kit laying around, but am hesitant to install. I'm worried that once I start taking the car apart to get engine work done that it will never get back together. At that point I will take a greater loss on the car selling it non-running...

Anyone have any suggestions on some projects I can tackle to keep moving along and to keep the car? I can afford to let it sit, but if I'm not motivated to work on it, I don't see a point in keeping it...

[PRY4SNO]

The COP kit will take you less than an hour to install. Give 'er a go, that should help you feel like something worthwhile got accomplished.

Aside from that, why not pick up a cheap block somewhere and build that on the side before installing? Simple way to overcome unanticipated delays and not increase your down time.

Failing that, what about running something like a 30r or efr6758 on stock block? That would ramp up the fun factor significantly, while keeping costs to a minimum.

[loxxrider]

Honestly man, you're going about this all wrong!

You DO need a bigger turbo on this to keep your interest. It's OK. That's normal! If it were me, I'd do as suggested above and put a 30r or HX35 on there on the stock block as it sits. Screw taking it out. You can do that later once you're back to being inspired 8)

You can totally buy the parts and put it all in over a weekend for a bigger turbo setup if you plan it out right. You don't need anything but the stock clutch either. If you are easy on it (don't bang shifts and don't ever launch) the stock clutch is capable of holding somewhere between 350 and 400 awhp believe it or not.

Just throw the 7a cams in (doesn't take long if you already have the valve cover off) and put those coils in. They won't take long to install, they'll be reliable, and you can get the configuration settings for them in VEMS easily enough. The only question you should be asking yourself is why haven't you done all of this sooner!