Richie's '91 20vt Avant

[uberaudi]

I figured I would start a project thread on my most recent acquisition, a '91 200 20vt Avant. I had been looking for one for a while and when one popped up 'close by', I went for it. Alpine white with travertine interior, one of three in this combination according to Audi. It was given a full timing belt job prior to my arrival and was in decent mechanical shape. Enough to drive the 12 hours back home anyways, but of course, it still needed some attention. It did however, have a host of old school goodies that I was excited about. IA stg2 chip, Apikol all aluminum thick core intercooler, Euro headlights, Samco silicone hoses, and a recently rebuilt transmission.

Here's how I got it. Although I added the super cheap, albeit somewhat decent looking 16's:


First thing I did was remove the Piaa lights that were installed 15 years ago, as well as the A pillar Autometer boost gauge. I installed new silicone vacuum line (desperately needed it) as well as a new boost gauge. I went with a Podi, mounting it in the center vent:


I drove it around for a bit, then started to hear a pretty good boost leak and pulled it into the garage. Found it:


Time to order some silicone from 034. I also ordered some suspension goodies at this point. While I was waiting for parts, I started to do some cleaning. First was refinishing the valve cover with some good 'ol fashioned wrinkle black:




Installed a auto dimming mirror as the old one was in bad shape and not even glued to 'new' windshield yet:


And a new stubby antennae to replace the tattered stock one. It's off a Honda S2000!



New Silicone came in:


It took a while to get all the suspension stuff done, as I didn't know what parts I was working with and what to order for. I finally found out (thanks to Yoda and others) that someone before me 'upgraded' the stock UFO housings to some nice 20v ones, instead of the correct UrS4/V8 housings. I thankfully located some correct housings and hubs from Ringbearer, resolving that issue. Then came new wheel bearings, tie rods, control arms/ball joints, Zimmerman rotors, Hawk HPS pads, Rennline stud conversion and 42DD 25mm front spacers. Got rid of the brake pad warning light as well as the ABS sensors, cuz that shit's for the birds!

I finally started the assembly with said parts and some of my own:








It seemed to be just in time too:


Figured it was time for a new air filter...sheesh:

Drilled box:


And finally the overall bay shot:


On the inside:

Decided to make a shift knob to replace the worn out wooden one:


Then add the thickened and re-skinned steering wheel and matching shift boot:

I wasn't totally impressed with the steering wheel redo, but I'm hoping with a little time and heat, the wrinkles will disappear. That napa leather sure feels nice though. A new stereo, headliner, and a pair of those mystical Travertine sport seats are on the list too.

And how she sits today:


Thanks for taking the time!

Richie

[loxxrider]

Oh wow, this is certainly a worthwhile addition to the community! Nice strut mounts. Just curious, how are the bearings held in from the bottom side?

[uberaudi]

Hey thanks Chris, I'm loving it so far. The top spherical bearings are held in with an internal snap ring.

[Aktapod]

Glad to have you! Looks like the Avant's is in good hands! I will never get tired of watching these old birds breathe new life. Did you do coilovers for all four corners, or just the fronts?

[loxxrider]

Kevin... Look again

Richie, I see the snap ring groove now. Nice. Looks to be a good, simple solution overall.

[uberaudi]

Yup, coilovers all around. I used the writeup for the rears almost exactly.

Hopefully this week I'll get my camber gauge made and can see what kind of range I can get out if my front setup. I'm at -1 degree camber now with lots of room to spare, although I dont know how much you actually would need.

[mushasho]

Looks like a really thick spacer you run all around along with a stud conversion kit...

[ringbearer]

Looks great!

[uberaudi]

Looks like a really thick spacer you run all around along with a stud conversion kit...

I am running 25mm spacers up front, but none in the rear. I originally bought the 25's because when I measured for spacers, I was unknowingly measuring off the 20vt strut housings that were on the car, which are offset inwards about 3/8" more than the correct UrS4/V8 ones. Now with the correct housings, they are just a little wider than I'd like...I'll probably just chuck them up and take off 5mm or so. It's easier to remove material than put it back on! I'm also using the Rennline stud conversion kit (with bullet tips), with the correct small ball-seat nuts. The wheels are 16x7 et35 I believe and they came off a local UrS4.

Looks great!

Thanks!

[uberaudi]

While I am waiting for more parts to arrive I starting looking at some other areas that need some attention. One being the after run system. It hasnt ever come on since I've owned the car so I'd like to figure out why. I've poured over sjm's troubleshooting guide which has led me in the right direction...again.

To test the function of the system, I crossed the terminals of the thermal switch (by the mfts) with a screwdriver and both the low speed fan and pump came on. So does this mean my switch is bad?

[PRY4SNO]

Nice pick up, car is looking tidy overall!

Any long term power upgrades planned, or are you mostly focused on restoration?

[scubagli]

I've got a pair of travertine sport fronts. Your a long way away.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-T337A using Tapatalk

[88a5tq]

I crossed the terminals of the thermal switch (by the mfts) with a screwdriver and both the low speed fan and pump came on. So does this mean my switch is bad?

I'd say that little 2 prong coolant temp sensor is your culprit. Cheap and simple to replace. Last time an audi repair will be so easy

[uberaudi]

Nice pick up, car is looking tidy overall!

Any long term power upgrades planned, or are you mostly focused on restoration?

Thanks! Long term yeah for sure. Not sure what it will entail, but I'd like to get around 300whp for whatever reason. I feel like I could be content for a while then....maybe. Right now I'm still just taking care of what needs to be done to have a comfortable, worry free daily.

I've got a pair of travertine sport fronts. Your a long way away.

Pm'd

I crossed the terminals of the thermal switch (by the mfts) with a screwdriver and both the low speed fan and pump came on. So does this mean my switch is bad?

I'd say that little 2 prong coolant temp sensor is your culprit. Cheap and simple to replace. Last time an audi repair will be so easy

Great! I went ahead and replaced this with a known good one I had lying around, we'll see if it works. Unfortunately I won't be able to test it until I get my fuel line reassembled which should be towards the end of this week. Working on old Audi's in nothing new to me, but I still seem to cuss a lot when my hand is contorted in a half cramped position as I'm trying to thread in an upside down sensor with only a quarter turn allotment, all the while with coolant rushing all over the place.


Next on the list: Power steering lines!

Has anyone taken the crimp collar off this and just replaced it with some hose and a clamp? I've done it to others, but I don't know what's underneath this one:

[yodasfro]

While I am waiting for more parts to arrive I starting looking at some other areas that need some attention. One being the after run system. It hasnt ever come on since I've owned the car so I'd like to figure out why. I've poured over sjm's troubleshooting guide which has led me in the right direction...again.

To test the function of the system, I crossed the terminals of the thermal switch (by the mfts) with a screwdriver and both the low speed fan and pump came on. So does this mean my switch is bad?

Even if you replace the sensor it still may not come on needs to really hot for that to happen. I replaced mine recently and even on one the hottest days 90 + it didn't go on. One way to make it work pretty much every time you shut the car off is to use the sensor and bracket from a 7A(cQ or 90 20v) which reads ambient rather than h20 temps. Requires running some wires from the stock wires. I have done it on my urs4.
It's also possible to find a lower temp range sensor for the water manifold.

[uberaudi]

The switch is supposed to flip when water temp hits 110c=230f which isn't too crazy. Maybe your switch was on its way out too? That's good to know about the air temp conversion though. 5ks use something similar for their injector cooling fan system.

[ringbearer]

You can also jump the terminals on the harness (at least on UrS cars) and it will run for 15 min every time you turn it off.

[uberaudi]

Thanks Ringbearer, I'll look into that once more testing can be done.

I finally figured out my AN fuel line to replace the leaky stock line going from the FPR to the fuel rail. I called the local Audi dealership and they had the OEM line in stock, however, there were only four left in the country with a cost of 260 big ones! It would be only a matter of time before finding a good used one would be your only option. This is one of the main reasons I converted to AN fittings. And as a bonus, when the FPR finally goes, I can easily look to the aftermarket for a quick replacement.

Finding the correct fitting to mate with the factory FPR ate a lot of time because of my lack of knowledge of Audi fittings and where to source AN versions of them, but I finally got a hold of J2 Precision and found a solution with the help of Greg Brown. He was a great person to communicate with and carries high quality Goodridge products, as well as these hard to find German sourced metric fittings. Starting at the fuel pressure regulator, I used a straight crimped on fitting (KT-7001-14x1.5-O6D) to AN-6 Kevlar Braided G-line flex hose (910-06) then to a 90 degree G-line Reusable (811-9006) and finally a 12mm banjo ending at the fuel rail. It sounds so simple now!



I rerouted the line around back of the rail for clearance issues and had to make a new bracket to mount the FPR, but everything fit nicely and should be much easier to work with down the road.




Now I can finally reschedule my inspection for the upcoming track day!

[uberaudi]

Good news! I passed the inspection so I'm good for this Sunday's track event, nice!

I went ahead and ordered some Bosch knock sensors off eBay and got those installed. They were kind of a bitch to get to, but it did help I had my FPR and fuel lines disassembled to give me a little more room to work with. Got them torqued to 15ft-lbs and I feel like the engine has a little more kick to it now, although I could just be lying to myself.



Also put in a good used thermotemp switch for my after run system and what do you know, the shit works! High 80 degree weather and spirited driving was enough to get it to register. Glad it was that simple, thanks for the advice fellas!

Now for the bonehead move of the month...On my rear coilovers I somehow forgot to put on the hardened washer for the top cap to sit on and keep the whole top assembly secure. Maybe I was just excited when I was installing them and overlooked it, but it was clear that something wasn't right when I heard the metal on metal contact coming from the rear. Without that washer, the shock just slides right up until it hits the upper body recess and goes CLUNK!

Thankfully the rears are so quick to remove and mess with so I removed and pulled them apart. Of course i couldn't find the stock washers so I improvised. Armed with a set of calipers, I ventured to ACE. Now the shock top OD is 12mm but a 12mm washer has an ID of 13mm which would be too large to properly fit on such a small shoulder that's on the shock. As it turns out, a 7/16" hardened washer has an ID of like 12.02 making it a perfect slip fit. But of course upon reassembly, my stack height of everything together was too tall, leaving the nut to not have enough threads to be secure. The preload on the top rubber bushing was also quite excessive. To remedy this, I ended up counter-boring the hardened washer into the cap, then added a couple more hardened washers in between the top rubber bushing and main bushing sleeve to get a nice snug fit on everything. As a bonus, counter-boring the washer gives the top hat some concentricity with respect to the shock shaft and helps keep the component alignment a bit more secure. The pics should explain:


Silver 'spacers' on top:


Completed assembly bottomed out on the sleeve and spacers and torqued:


After a quick spin around the block, everything is once again nice and tight, hooray!

[uberaudi]

Looks like it's going to be some stiff competition!

https://www.motorsportreg.com/index.cfm ... fxIfxFVhBc

[uberaudi]

It turns out track days are Awesome!! I had never been to one, let alone in a 20vt Avant and had an absolute blast. The coilover suspension held great and so did the engine, pumping 20 psi for the majority of the runs. It's amazing how much fuel you burn through when the injectors are wide open the whole time . I went though a full tank in about 15 laps...I must have been getting like 5mpg or something! I headed up with a buddy with a 1.8t swapped Mk2 Gli with about 220hp and another one with a bone stock '15 Gti and we were all pretty evenly matched. Topped out at 127 on the fast section and was passing rookie Caymen S's like they were standing still...now that's a good feeling!

Lots of cool cars there yesterday. a super clean Urs6, E36 M3's and a late model vert M3, Sr20DET 240, 700whp vette, mustangs, turbo Hondas, SRT8's, 914, 968's, Caymens, 997, boxsters..the list goes on. Great time and I walked away with my Solo promotion (only one of my friends ) I wish I had pics and videos that were worth a shit, but I think a Go-pro could be in my future for next season...I'm hooked!

Now what's the consensus on big brakes? Mine faded out (pedal on the floor!) after about 5-6 laps with stock rotors, Hawk HPS pads, and fresh fluid so I'd like to upgrade before the season rolls around again. What's the difference between the Big Reds and Boxster S calipers? Is one better than the other? That seems like the easiest upgrade for the G60 housings, unless I'm missing something.

Any been there done that recommendations?

[loxxrider]

I have Boxster S calipers on the front of my Sedan and Big Reds on my Avant. I believe the big reds are a better caliper, but not 100% sure on that. Honestly, if you want to do serious track driving, you should go for something even bigger like 18Z Cayenne calipers. They can be had for probably the same price as a set of big reds.

I like your counterbored top hats by the way. Good idea.

[Berserker]

I've got 17z cayenne/q7 calipers over 323x30 rotors on my S6 currently, and I am in about $700 in the swap. ($300 for rebuilt calipers, including core, $200 for the brackets, $40 for lines, $40 for pads, and $100 for rotors, plus fluid and misc.). There was a group buy on caliper brackets a few months back for that conversion, and I believe Chris Brydon still sells the brackets. You'll need 17s to run them, whereas the 993tt/928gts big reds/big blacks will still fit under some 16 in. wheels.

When I bought my S6, it had Stoptech brakes (ST40 4 piston calipers over 332x32 rotors), and those were amazing on the track with track pads. There is nothing better on track than having confidence in your brakes. I've still got the kit, but I decided to rebuild the calipers a year or so ago, and they're still in pieces, hence the 17z upgrade. They're available if you want them, but they definitely need some work to be cleaned and reassembled. I feel like the Stoptechs were a little better balanced for the car, as the 17zs feel a little too biased toward the front, now, but replacement parts (rotor rings especially) are really expensive.

[uberaudi]

Great info, thanks. It seems on par with my friend with the UrS6 was saying. He has Boxster calipers and say they are an obvious upgrade from the G60's, but he still wants/needs more.

I considered taking those Stoptechs off your hands, but then looked at the price of the rotors. You weren't kidding they're expensive...250 bucks a piece?! That's crazy! I had completely forgot about the 17/18z options so thanks for that too. I'm leaning towards those more and more now... The Touareg ones are pretty cheap used. Where did you source yours from? They were about 75 a piece from car-parts.com.

Any rear options that bolt on to even out the bias?

This could get out of hand quickly...giant calipers, rotors, wheels....turbo...ok, I'm on board.

Here's a quick vid of the track session my buddy just sent me. It seems so much slower on video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uWar2A ... pp=desktop

[Berserker]

It always seems slower on video. That's probably one of the reasons I don't take video when I'm on the track. That and I haven't been to the track for a couple of years.

I got the calipers via RockAuto or somewhere similar. Several places online have rebuilt 17z calipers for ~$150 each including core charge.

I haven't gone larger on the rear of my S6, yet, since the UrQ is the track car these days. Maybe play with pad compounds to affect bias. I'm sure someone has figured out a way to put larger calipers or discs on the rear.